Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Well, we can start with Jesus Himself. HE continually referenced Scripture and used it to validate Himself.
There are also Paul and Peter. Pillars of the church, no?
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2 Timothy 3
10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
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2 Peter 3:15-17
15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
A significant number of (Roman) Catholics believe any "Catholic" Bible written since the Douay Rheims is the work of the Devil.
Take a look at this.
http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/tca_solascriptura.aspx
Maybe it will explain where the Orthodox are coming from. I have heard the same sort of argument from the father of my oldest goddaughter. He is a convert from Protestantism, an Orthodox priest and an army chaplain in Afghanistan. Try to remember that your forebears didn’t rebel from us nor, until American evangelicals (why is this not a surprise?) decided we all needed saving in the past 40 years or so, did your religious forebears try to make any trouble for us.
Don't tell me you think Christ, God, needed to validate Himself? You believe that that is why Christ quoted the Septuagint?
You know, mm, I have for sometime now been suspicious that some Protestant theology is strangely Mohammedan. That's precisely how Mohammedan used both the OT and his own scriptural nonsense. The Mohammedans reduce Christ to the next to the greatest prophet. Do you reduce Him to a mere prophet who needs validation by scripture?. If you don't mean that, you should be more careful about what you say. Think it through.
MY forebearers?
You shouldn’t make assumptions.....
If you are a protestant, I assume, safely enough I believe, that your religious (if not genetic) forebears were protestants. If you are not a protestant of some sort, then you are correct and my assumption is wrong.
Well that's odd, but there are all sorts of odd religious ideas floating around these days.
Don't even go there....
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
mm, as you know, I am not a Roman Catholic nor am I an apologist for Roman Catholicism. I do not, however, find Roman Catholicism even remotely Mohammedan. I find much of protestantism distressingly so. As for JPII kissing a koran, well, it surprised me but then again I thought then and think now that he was a lousy theologian. Most Orthodox do and did. The quote from the Catechism is an example of the modernist, innovative theology which came out of the Vatican in his years. To say with absolute confidence that “the plan of salvation” (whatever that is) includes Mohammedans, at one level, states the obvious. The created purpose of all mankind is to become like God. This includes atheists, idolators, everyone. But I suspect this section 841 is going beyond that to place Mohammedanism in some special and elevated category. Stuff like this is why so many of us are very concerned about our hierarchs and their talks with the Latins. BXVI, on the other hand, for us is an entirely different matter. Can you imagine him kissing a koran?
Ahhh...the reliably spurious letters of Ignatius, contradictory, agenda driven, and written by how many different authors?
I don’t worship the so-called “Church Fathers”.
There are a number of what we believe to be spurious. Frankly, I think there is little doubt that some of them are fakes and the product of agendas, especially the letters to Panagia and +John. Even the Latins admit these are fakes. But the letter to the Smyrneans, which I referenced, is pretty generally accepted as being authentic.
"I don’t worship the so-called “Church Fathers”."
Neither do I. I don't worship a book either.
Do you reduce Him to a mere prophet who needs validation by scripture?.
Read the verses at the link and see what Jesus has to say about Himself and His relation to Scripture.
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
I don't know anyone who does.
If you're believing the false accusations of those who are simply reacting to their idolatry exposed by making a counter claim, you'll end up falling for all kinds of deceptions.
Since non-Catholics are accused of worshiping a book simply because it's held as the standard for truth and people believe that it is adequate for knowledge pertaining to salvation, but that *logic* any who follow the pope, or tradition, can likewise be accused of worshiping the pope or tradition.
Muslims could ask the same thing about their theology. One's belief in something doesn't render it either true or false. The veracity or falsity of something is not determined by one's belief either way, no matter how confident or comfortable one may be with it.
If God exists, does our own failures and shortcomings in description of Him, negate Him?
Does a novel prove that the story is true?
My only point being that if our understanding of God has undergone revision, that does not necessarily invalidate that understanding. It is possible that we simply understand God better (not completely, of course not, but better than the fishermen and salesmen 2000 years ago). 'Twas my point. The fact that the Church harmonized Scripture to the extent that it has does not invalidate it. It may mean that it has been nudged towards better description than formerly.
You may mean the NAB...
Oremus. Concede nos famulos tuos, quaesumus, Domine Deus, perpetua mentis et corporis sanitate gaudere, et gloriosae beatae Mariae semper Virginis intercessione, a praesenti liberari tristitia, et aeterna perfrui laetitia. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. R. Amen.
You may wish to read the passage, and not merely the verse to get the meaning of what Jesus is saying here. Who is He rebuking, why, and how?
See here.
Thanks for your links. I'll check them out later.
If any of the letters of Ignatius were really authored by a historical Ignatius (doubtful) they would remain his opinions, nothing more.
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