Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
annalex wrote:
“How were they “unwilling”? No one called her anything but “the virgin”. That was simply a fact to them.”
I will repeat this yet again. There is a difference between that which any given teacher himself believes or favors and may even talk about and that which he publicly teaches as divine truth. All people, even preachers and teachers, venture forth with opinions and strongly held ideas that may or may not be indisputably true. This is one of the great plagues of the church in America, whether Catholic or Protestant, as you surely know. Those wise among the preachers, respectful toward their audience, and who fear, love, and trust in God above all things, identify as opinion that which is their opinion, however strongly supported. But when they speak “as the oracles of God,” that is, in the stead and by the command of Christ, then they put forth no opinion, only God’s word. And if they speak untruth, it is the duty of their hearers to recognize and point this out ... again, in fear of God, whose word and honor it is.
I note in this regard that as strongly believed as the perpetual virginity of Mary was among the church fathers, such teaching never found its way into any of the ecumenical creeds. Oversight? Mistake? I don’t think so. And when I see the craziness of the arguing back and forth on this thread between Roman Catholic and Protestant (here I do not count Lutheran as Protestant ... in fact, I don’t think of them as such anyway, just as I don’t think of them as Romanist) I am more convinced than ever that the fathers of Nicaea and the original Reformers, i.e., the Lutherans, were wiser and more in tune with each other than any of us can imagine.
Not all that comes from a priest/pastor is to be believed automatically. The church fathers were no different, they put their shoes on one at a time ... and they too have answered to God, as we all will. To mislead the children of God is about the worst thing anyone can do. Better, as Jesus said, to have a millstone put round your neck and be dropped into the middle of the sea.
Your problem, annalex, is that you cannot separate your Roman Catholicism from your Christianity. They are not the same thing, despite your denials. You are like the hyper-partisan Democrat or Republican who cannot separate what is for the good of the party from what is for the good of the country. Such politicians are dangerous. So are such theologians.
But you believe the scripture. Who told you that truth?
According to 1 Corinthians 2:14, the natural man cannot receive the things of God because they are Spiritually discerned. That means that the Bible is a closed book to all the unregenerate. The natural man considers the things of God as foolishness. It is for this reason that man can go one of two courses, he can either (1) mock and ridicule the Scriptures as atheists and your garden variety misotheists willing and openly do, or (2) wrest Scripture so that by mishandling the texts by adding Traditions (Rome), new Revelation (Mormons), or ignoring the parts that offend (American Religion) and overemphasizing the parts that appease man's sense of vanity (social gospel).
Every Scriptural error can be reduced to imposing a carnal template upon the Inspired Word. Therefore, it is logically impossible and thus a logical requirement that the one true Gospel can only be properly discerned, not by man, but by the Spirit. Evidence for this is found Acts 2:4; 4:8; 6:5; 13:9 where being filled with the Spirit preceded the Gospel being spoken boldly. Notice that Stephen was "full of faith and power" before he began his great sermon in Acts 7 that brought offense to the Jews who unable to bear these words killed him.
Rome doesn't care too much for the Paraclete, and therefore assumes that Divine Role and Rome claims that knowledge and wisdom come from the Church. Contrast what Rome claims to what we read in Exodus 31 and 35
Ex 31:3-5 And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works, to work in gold, in silver, in bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of workmanship.
In this case the LORD filled the artisians with the Spriit of God. We see here a expansive list of fruits of being filled, and we all see to what ends the equipping creates. That is, an Old Testament confirmation to the same Spirit born Spiritual Gifts described by Paul in Ephesians 4. The Spirit fills certain apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers with the tools "equipping of the Saints" for the ends of edifying the body of Christ.
So to answer your question. It is neither the role nor the duty for Rome to cause anyone to believe the Scriptures - that role is the sole possession of the Paraclete, and God bestows His gracious gifts upon those whom He desires to edify the body of Christ. It is every man's role to faithfully preach the Gospel and have a ready answer to all who ask in and out of season (2 Timothy 4:2) And thus we are exorted to "Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching" and let the Paraclete fulfill His Divine role.
annalex wrote:
“Indeed. And the New Testament writers he inspired were all Catholic Christians. Those who later decided which works to canionize and which not to canonized were Catholic Christians. God dictated the scripture to the Church, who then gave it to you.”
Yada, yada, yada. Hyper-partisanship is so tiresome.
I must decrease and He must increase is the true attitude of Christ’s church.
Wishful thinking.
Claiming they were Catholic in hindsight does not make them Catholic.
Since they were true Christians, the writers of the NT were obviously Protestant Christians since they taught salvation by grace through faith.
As long as he's still alive, there is hope.
Believe and disbelieve what? Scripture vs Tradition? Since you claim the witness of the *Church* is must be tradition.
We believe Scripture and keep referring back to it. Catholics keep telling us it's wrong and appealing to Tradition, and the *church fathers* and any other extra-Biblical evidence they can find to support their unbiblical teachings.
Who's doing the disbelieving here? We believe God in His word. Catholics believe everyone else BUT God.
metmom wrote:
“Since they were true Christians, the writers of the NT were obviously Protestant Christians since they taught salvation by grace through faith.”
Please, hyper-partisanship from whichever side serves no good purpose. In this case it is also anachronistic.
Is that the same thing as pulp fiction? ;o)
Non-sequitor...the last bastion of a person devoid of answers.
You have no proof Luther even existed but you had an urgent need to twist words to comment on him. Babbling idiots - a dime a dozen who have nothing to say but need to be heard.
Um, I was not being serious....
Since they were true Christians, the writers of the NT were obviously Protestant Christians since they taught salvation by grace through faith
That's going to leave a mark. :)
“Um, I was not being serious....”
Good. It gets hard to tell around here sometimes.
Micah 5:2
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”
Matthew 2:1-6
1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
3 When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 5 “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’
Yeah, I know.
Wouldn't you like to know?
How do we know he existed?
Archeology.
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