Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Crickets, huh?
What a Bible scholar.
About what I expected..When someone had no response yelling Heretic used to work.. It just is not all that effective anymore :)
> “Protestants who rely ONLY on the scripture should worry quite a bit when their pastors lie to them and slip intentionally mangled translations to them.”
.
The most popular intentionally mangled translation, the NIV, is quite popular in catholic parishes.
Real Christians, as opposed to catholics, etc, need not worry because we have the Holy Spirit to guide us through the damage that has been done to God’s word, while all catholics have is Ishtar/mary.
More to the point, all of the translations, including the Douay, have adequate ammunition to demolish all errant catholic doctrine.
AH HA!!! I just knew it. :O)
Adam and Eve were created innocent not "sinless',as you correctly noted there was no such thing as sin in the world when they were created.But there was a sinful, rebellious Lucifer in that garden
God put the snake (satan) in the Garden ..if God wanted Adam and Eve to remain in the created innocence He could have put the snake outside the garden.
God put the temptation in the garden. If God wanted them to remain innocent, He could have placed the trees outside of the garden.
God knew that Adam and Eve would succumb to the sin of pride, just as Lucifer did .. God knew this before the foundation of the world.he had already ordained a Savior for the sin of men. If this was not a part of Gods desire he could have kept them in innocence .
What so many fail to understand is the Fall, like all things, redounds to the glory of God..
Without the fall, we would never know or understand the Holiness and righteousness of God, we would never have seen His justice or mercy ...the creation is not about the creation, it is about the creator .
Ultimately JESUS came to seek and to save that which is lost through sin. He came because His Father so loved the world..."For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
I thought you said He came to restore man dominion over the world???
Always glad to find agreement ...
This is kinnda funny coming from a member of a church that has members like Bill O Reilly that was catholic educated and has a masters degree that thought Timothy was OT... my guess that is the norm not the exception..
Even scraps of the scriptures are enough to bring one to faith in Christ, God protects the purpose of His word..and it will always accomplish what it is set forth to do.
I "hate" the NIV but I still trust God's sovereignty over it
My first bible was an NIV NT given to me at a Catholic retreat by a generous person.
believe it or not, I had a hard time understanding that so I bought "the Good News For Modern Man " translation (Ohhh yea worse then the NIV) and yet that Bible fed me through the first year after i was saved.
More to the point, all of the translations, including the Douay, have adequate ammunition to demolish all errant catholic doctrine.
And to teach correct doctrine... God leads...
Right now I own every translation , (except an NIV) even a Douay ... and they all tell us that we are saved by faith in the propitiation of Christ on our behalf
“Indeed we were made in His image, but again the question is why did He make us at all ?”
Well, MOM, I’ve read your later post so I know your answer, and I agree wholeheartedly. I also think the simple answer you and I learned in the 1st grade is right on the money.
I will go on to say that I believe, along with most Orthodox Christians, that there is more to it than “simply” (there’s really nothing even remotely simple about it, is there!) glorifying God. I say this because within the economy of salvation we have the Incarnation, and as +Athanasius the Great tells us, God became man so that men might become like gods. Here’s a link:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/athanasius/incarnation.ii.html
Our created purpose was and is to become sons by adoption of the Most High God. To be thoroughly and probably heretically anthropomorphic and simplistic about the matter, God wanted and wants, for reasons sufficient to Him, that we be His children.
Doesn't show. Every time you try to defend Protestantism you do so by explaining how the Scripture doesn't say what it says. Every time I defend Catholicism I either show direct scripture or say plainly that the scripture does not contain a prooftext either way. Reflect on that.
Which brings us right back to my original question: why not just make man without the posse peccare and spare everyone the drama, bood and guts?
In returrn you quote from an unnamed source about the penance in relation to Confession. So? First, it has nothing to do with the purgatory. One suffering in the prugatory is not paying for any sin; he already has his sins repented of, confessed and absolved. Second, when, during our lifetime we go to confession and receive penance, we are not paying for that sin either. Christ alone paid for every sin. A Penance is to strengthen the penitent against future sin. For example, if a penitent went to confession, got the sin absolved and got a penancer assigned, and then did not do penance (for whatever reason), that sin that he confessed remains absolved. Why? Because Christ paid for it. It helps to know something about that which you attempt to opine.
You then continue quoting: they yielded to some temptations, fell into some small sins
Yes. But again, Christ paid for these small sins as well. The Church Suffering is in purgatory because they need to be pure, not to pay for any sin, big or small. This is, by the way, what your unidentified source is saying, -- you did not have to make this post and pretend to argue with me at all. You simply needed to read from that source as it seems to know what sin, penance and purgatory are quite well.
Let me know if you get any answer for that one.
Then why do you appeal to tradition and extra Biblical writings so much?
Then what is purgatory purifying people FROM?
“”Our created purpose was and is to become sons by adoption of the Most High God.””
Right on target,dear Kolo
“The possession most precious to God, and most fitting; Let us give back the image that is made after the Image, Let us recognize our Dignity; let us honour our Archetype;let us know the power of the Mystery,and for what Christ died.Let us become like Christ,since Christ has become like us.Let us become God’s for His sake,since He for ours became Man.He assumed the worse so that He might give us the better;He became poor,so that we through his poverty might become rich;He took upon Him the form of a servant that we might receive back our liberty;He came down,that we might be exalted He was tempted,that we might conquer;He was dishonoured,that He might glorify us;He died,that He might save us,He ascended,that He might draw Himself to us,who were lying low in the Fall of sin.
Let us give all, offer all,to Him who gave Himself as Ransom and a Reconciliation for us.But one can given nothing like oneself,understanding the Mystery and becoming for His sake,all that He became for ours.”- First Paschal Sermon of St Gregory of Nazianzen
I think I have discovered why you have such a problem with my posts then. You think I am defending "Protestantism", but I am really not at all. I am showing direct Scripture from God's Holy Bible without the fluff and twisty, turny, sideways, inside and out "interpretation" of fallible men full of their own self-satisfied hubris and imagined piety. Maybe it is you who is in need of "reflection", you know, the kind that comes from seeking God's illumination of truth instead of trusting in ready-made, man-made doctrines that strip away the simplicity that is in Christ.
Where does it say that?
The angel fell through pride and thus satan/demonic.
Where does it say that?
Man had a choice and failed on his own - go back to where he was given dominion and how he chose to do what 'he' wanted with that authority.
What's dominion got to do with man's fall? Adam failed because he listened to Eve and Eve says she was 'enticed' by the serpent. Have you ever made a stupid mistake? Do your descendants deserve to suffer for it?
But, the important thing is: God would have known this from all eternity, and he still created a world that was bound to fail, that was sure to fall into sin, just so God can go on a suicidal mission to "fix" his mangum opus, not to talk all misery, and unnecessary suffering!
If I really hate mold, but consciously allow it to fester and spread, and then reach for drastic measure to clean it up, that doesn't sound like a very good plan to me.
The only way that would happen if he made us like robots. LOVE doesn't control.
And what do you think you are going to be in heaven? Love doesn't have to control you to make you not desire sin. If man's nature were made to detest sin, you wold never sin, naturally. So why not just cut out all the drama, blood and gust and go straight for the finished product?
GOD didn't design the world to fail.
Then why did it fail? Against God's will? Are you serious? If you are, yours is a strange religion, imo. And if the world did not fail, why was Jesus sent to rescue it? Why is he called the Savior?
It only could be reclaimed by 'man' since it was 'man' that had dominion here
Is that a fact? You mean to tell me that God was powerless to fix it otherwise? He absolutely had no other choice? He was obligated? Compelled? Forced? Cornered? Like I said, I don't' believe in your God, for sure, for he seems to be no God, but a victim of man, who waits for a perfect Man to fix things.
God is Good, God is Love - man is not
But nothing could stop God, if he is God, from making man good and making sure he remained good. He didn't. Your "God," on the other hand, is obviously not capable or willing to do that, but rather keeps fixing everything the tenants break.
What you seem to want is someone controlling you so you don't have to make a choice and still be safe. A controlling spirit is demonic and has it's roots in witchcraft - it's a form of manipulation which satan used from the beginnining.
And what do you call when you say that God gave you faith, or an indwelling Spirit? What does that faith and Spirit do? And what do you say when Paul says you are a slave to Christ? You submission to him is a safe limo ride to heaven.
The choice is theirs. Adam/Eve were given a GIFT
The forbidden fruit? Some gift!
also, and they traded it for deception. Again, there is nothing new under the sun.
Oh so melodramatic, let me get my popcorn out...How do you know you have not been deceived? Even the Bible you worship says Satan can appear as the Angel of Light.
And if the ancestral parents were deceived was that really their fault? Do you think they were that dumb as to realize they were being deceived and said "oh, we are being deceived...but let's do this anyway!" If you have been deceived, you may be dumb, but you are still a victim. And victims hardly deserve what Adam and Eve got.
I have yet to see a post from our agnostic FRiend "shoot holes" in anyone's arguments. Perhaps you have a few that you are thinking about specifically that you can call our attention to.
Also, the "fire-breathing personal attack mode" is sticking out like a sore thumb in YOUR VERY OWN POSTS, so you may want to back off on the rhetoric for awhile, it does not help your case.
I am under no obligation, contractural or moral, to provide encouragement for building others up in the faith. I am here to ask questions so that I may know.
But since you mentioned it, I don't see your posts as constructing nor encouraging for building others up in the faith either. However, your seem to be discouraging and disparaging of the Catholic faith. Is that why you are on this forum?
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