In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[kosta50]

Then we agree at least that all existence or factual questions are not established or disconfirmed in the same way in every case...

Actually they are; it's just that some meet the absolute criteria closer than others, and are therefore "ranked" accordingly.

that the type of evidence in existence or factual claims is determined by the field of discussion and by the metaphysical nature of the entity in the claim under question.

What metephysicial nature?

No, just because you have not discovered it does not mean that it is not known

I said discovered, not invented or imagined, or blindly believed, presumed, assumed, presupposed. If sometihng "supernatural" has been disocvered, then please tell us where it was discovery and when, and what exactly is it that was discoevred. If you don't mind, that is.

and that the type of evidence in existence or factual claims is determined by the field of discussion and by the metaphysical nature of the entity in the claim under question,

What metaphysical nature?.

all you are doing is precluding the very possibility of any of the available historical evidence counting as proof

What "historical" evidence?

[RnMomof7]

++++The emotion of hate would have to be in God(part of His essence) before sin entered the world or God would be changed- this leaves you with a god of love and hate in his essence which is dualistic,like zeus++++

No , it makes God righteous and just.. God HATES sin , a failure to understand that is one made by the unsaved..

God hates what is knowing what is considered unholy, unpure, and
unworthy in His sight.

* God hates homosexual acts. (Leviticus 18:22)
* God hates sexual acts between humans and animals. (Leviticus 18:23)
* God hates idols and even the precious metals and other materials which
have been used in making idols. (Deuteronomy 7:25)
* God hates blemished sacrifices. (Deuteronomy 17:1)
* God hates the worship of the sun, moon, or stars. (Deuteronomy 17:3-4)
* God hates divination. (Deuteronomy 18:10)
* God hates astrology. (Deuteronomy 18:10)
* God hates enchanters. (Deuteronomy 18:10)
* God hates witches. (Deuteronomy 18:10)
* God hates charmers. (Deuteronomy 18:10)
* God hates wizards. (Deuteronomy 18:11)
* God hates necromancers. (Deuteronomy 18:11)
* God hates the wearing of clothing of the opposite sex. (Deuteronomy
22:5)
* God hates and will not accept as an offering the hire of a whore.
(Deuteronomy 23:18)
* God hates remarriage to a former wife after she has been married to
another man. (Deuteronomy 24:4)
* God hates scales that are falsely calibrated to cheat the customer.
(Deuteronomy 25:13-16)
* God hates workers of iniquity. (Psalm 5:5)
* God hates the wicked. (Psalm 11:5)
* God hates those who love violence. (Psalm 11:5)
* God hates the froward. (Proverbs 3:32)
* God hates a proud look. (Proverbs 6:16-17)
* God hates a lying tongue. (Proverbs 6:17)
* God hates hands that shed innocent blood. (Proverbs 6:17)
* God hates a heart that devises wicked imaginations. (Proverbs 6:18)
* God hates feet that are swift in running to mischief. (Proverbs 6:18)
* God hates a false witness who speaks lies. (Proverbs 6:19)
* God hates anyone who sows discord among brethren. (Proverbs 6:19)
* God hates lying lips. (Proverbs 12:22)
* God hates the sacrifices of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:8)
* God hates the ways of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:9)
* God hates the thoughts of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:26)
* God hates the proud in heart. (Proverbs 16:5)
* God hates those who justify the wicked. (Proverbs 17:15)
* God hates those who condemn the just. (Proverbs 17:15)
* God hates vain sacrifices. (Isaiah 1:13)
* God hates the feasts of the new moon celebrated by the Hebrews during
the days of Isaiah. (Isaiah 1:14)
* God hates robbery for burnt offering. (Isaiah 61:8)
* God hates idolatry. (Jeremiah 44:2-4)
* God hates evil plans against neighbors. (Zechariah 8:17)
* God hates false oaths. (Zechariah 8:17)
* God hates divorce. (Malachi 2:14-16)1

So do we believe a philosophical denial of God hating things from human understanding or do we accept what His word says??
Let me think about that ..LOL

[editor-surveyor]

> “I can tell you the traditions Christ condemned and why. He condemned a 15c charlatan like Luther coming along and turning the Word of God upside down.”

.
Luther revived a church that had been dead, and non-existant for a millenium.

Rogue despots declared themselves to be the “Fathers” of Christ’s church, and brutalized all who sought Christ until Luther was given courage by the Holy Spirit, and the church was reborn, turning the traditions of despotic men (Nicolaitanos) upside down.

[stfassisi]

God hates what is knowing what is considered unholy, unpure, and unworthy in His sight.

God is the same unchanging God(who is love -1 John)"the same today as eternity(Heb 13:8).Sin entering the world did not change Him,RN, He did not have hate in Him before sin entered the world or he would be like zeus

We don't change God,it is man who hates God(love) when they sin in the scripture you listed.God allows mankind to hate him because of free will,that is why calvin is a monster for denying free will and calling it a plan from God,RN

When you read that God hates, it's figurative

[editor-surveyor]

You willfully add to, and take away from the word of God?

If post 3304 were mine, I would ask that it be removed lest the Father in heaven send lightening to clense my deception.
.

[MarkBsnr]

Do you have any NT testimony about God hating? What does Jesus say about it? Do you have any Christ in your Christianity?

[editor-surveyor]

> “The scriptures are secondary to teachings of Christ that were passed on via his Apostles.”

.
The written Gospels are the complete teachings that Christ gave the apostles.

.
> “Christ picked 12 Apostles. They and their successors made up the early Church.”

.
The only “successor” apostle was Paul, whom Christ himself chose. there is not a single word about successor apostles, only Pastors, and elders.

The scriptures are all that we were given and all that is added to them is of the adversary

[metmom]

Who can we trust? The critics, apostates, atheists, agnostics, gnostics, assorted self appointed know it alls and ignoranti, Or, OR,

Christ Jesus himself when said that God's word is truth?

Hmmm,.... let me think about that one for a bit.....

decisions, decisions.......

;)

[OLD REGGIE]

I just made a post on that.

We know that Mary of Cleophas was the mother of James and Joses from John 19:25: "there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen". That proves that at least James and Joseph were not children of Mary the Mother of God, but raqther of that other Mary.

How in the world do you make the leap to "Mary of Cleophas" being the mother of James, Joses, etc.?

The other gospels indeed do not mention Mary the Mother of God at the cross. But note that St. John was there, and he mentions all three Marys.

On the contrary, the other Gospels do name Mary, the mother of Jesus, James, and Joseph.

Mary the Mother of God was not among the women bringing myrrh on the next day.

You would have her washing her hands of Jesus after His crucifiction. Certainly she wouldn't be that callous. She certainly was there.

Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salo'me, bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.

*********************************************************

The Gospels are unanimous in describibing Mary, the mother of Jesus, as being present despite your efforts to ignore plain Scripture in order to deny Jesus had blood brothers (and sisters).

Further evidence from Scripture:

Acts 1:
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days.
19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother

Acts 1:
13* and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James.
14 All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
15 In those days Peter stood up among the brethren (the company of persons was in all about a hundred and twenty), and said,


Acts 1:14 is clear to define His mother, Mary and His brothers as distinct from the company of about 120 brethren.

[getoffmylawn]

The written Gospels are the complete teachings that Christ gave the apostles.

Maybe according to Bishop Editor-Surveyor, but he's outside the Church that chose those written gospels, so his opinion really doesn't matter.

It's just ridiculous to think all Christ's teachings are in the Gospels. If that were the case, why recruit 12 guys to help spread the instructions? Why not just hire a few scribes and tell 'em to start churning out the pamphlets for the good people to read? Why waste all that time explaining things to the Apostles? He should have just told the Apostles to just keep writing. All they need to know will be in the pamphlets. But that's not what he did, did he? No. Christ did not hire a scribe while he sat home dictating. The entire nature of his ministry is completely counter the notion there's a complete set of instructions that any idiot can decipher.

Christ's ministry was a hands on ministry in which nuance is essential. The written word fails miserably when it comes to describing the nuances of LOVE, and that's exactly what God and Christ is. To put that much faith in a BOOK is, to me, just plain stupid.

The fact that REAL Christianity is so much more than following the instructions in a magic perfect book is what makes Christianity such a beautiful religion. It's like comparing a book about how a mother should love a child to the actual experience of a mother's actual unconditional love. There's no way a book can capture that beauty, no matter how well it may be written. You can't teach what is beyond words by simply using words.

[OLD REGGIE]

explain how "...the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." through Scripture if it is not sufficient

The man of God will be complete if he learns the Holy Tradition (2 Tim 3:14) as well as Holy Scripture (2 Tim 3:15) which two together are sufficient, just as the Catholic Church teaches.

Paul speaks in the present and past tense. Nowhere does he even hint that it would be fine to "invent" Tradition as required.

Read the scripture with love and attention and you, too, will become Catholic.

I am among the countless millions who found it necessary to leave the corrupted Catholic Church because of the attention and love of Scripture.

[kosta50]

God hates homosexual acts. (Leviticus 18:22) * God hates sexual acts between humans and animals. (Leviticus 18:23) * God hates idols and even the precious metals and other materials which have been used in making idols. (Deuteronomy 7:25) * God hates blemished sacrifices. (Deuteronomy 17:1) * God hates the worship of the sun, moon, or stars. (Deuteronomy 17:3-4) * God hates divination. (Deuteronomy 18:10) * God hates astrology. (Deuteronomy 18:10) * God hates enchanters. (Deuteronomy 18:10) * God hates witches. (Deuteronomy 18:10) * God hates charmers. (Deuteronomy 18:10) * God hates wizards. (Deuteronomy 18:11) * God hates necromancers. (Deuteronomy 18:11) * God hates the wearing of clothing of the opposite sex. (Deuteronomy 22:5) * God hates and will not accept as an offering the hire of a whore. (Deuteronomy 23:18) * God hates remarriage to a former wife after she has been married to another man. (Deuteronomy 24:4) * God hates scales that are falsely calibrated to cheat the customer. (Deuteronomy 25:13-16) * God hates workers of iniquity. (Psalm 5:5) * God hates the wicked. (Psalm 11:5) * God hates those who love violence. (Psalm 11:5) * God hates the froward. (Proverbs 3:32) * God hates a proud look. (Proverbs 6:16-17) * God hates a lying tongue. (Proverbs 6:17) * God hates hands that shed innocent blood. (Proverbs 6:17) * God hates a heart that devises wicked imaginations. (Proverbs 6:18) * God hates feet that are swift in running to mischief. (Proverbs 6:18) * God hates a false witness who speaks lies. (Proverbs 6:19) * God hates anyone who sows discord among brethren. (Proverbs 6:19) * God hates lying lips. (Proverbs 12:22) * God hates the sacrifices of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:8) * God hates the ways of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:9) * God hates the thoughts of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:26) * God hates the proud in heart. (Proverbs 16:5) * God hates those who justify the wicked. (Proverbs 17:15) * God hates those who condemn the just. (Proverbs 17:15) * God hates vain sacrifices. (Isaiah 1:13) * God hates the feasts of the new moon celebrated by the Hebrews during the days of Isaiah. (Isaiah 1:14) * God hates robbery for burnt offering. (Isaiah 61:8) * God hates idolatry. (Jeremiah 44:2-4) * God hates evil plans against neighbors. (Zechariah 8:17) * God hates false oaths. (Zechariah 8:17) * God hates divorce. (Malachi 2:14-16)

What a world he created...

[kosta50]

If that were the case, why recruit 12 guys to help spread the instructions? Why not just hire a few scribes and tell 'em to start churning out the pamphlets for the good people to read? Why waste all that time explaining things to the Apostles? He should have just told the Apostles to just keep writing. All they need to know will be in the pamphlets

There you go trying to be logical, again, with the crowd that believes in talking snakes and donkeys...

[OLD REGGIE]

In Matthew 16 Christ renames Simon after the rock they are standing on. In John 1:42 Jesus merely predicts that future event at the meeting of St. Peter.

This is so crazy it is causing me to choke on my beer. Jesus didn't predict He knew. Jesus didn't attach any special significance to the "rock" interpretation which would become so important in the world of Catholic inventiveness.

The “tend my sheep” episode reinstates St. Peter as the head of the Church after his denial of Christ.

Tell me you're just joking.

You mean He calls Him by Peter’s birth name? What of it? You doubt it is the same person?

If you are not aware just how stupid this question is I can be of no help.

Have you considered that Jesus made no distinction between the significance of the name "Peter" vs "Simon"?

[Diamond]

What metephysicial nature?

Is that a pun?

Cordially,

[kosta50]

[ re 2 Tim 3:14-15] Paul speaks in the present and past tense. Nowhere does he even hint that it would be fine to "invent" Tradition as required

Among other things he says

"from infancy you have known [sic] the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

What nonsense! How do infants "know" scripture, or anything for that matter? And how is that possible when such scriptures were not even written yet???

Surely the Old Testament alone (and that was the only scripture in Paul's days) doesn't make anyone "wise for salvation through faith in Chirst Jesus."

[kosta50]

Is that a pun?

No, it was a question based on what you wrote.

[count-your-change]

I see it pretty much as THE dividing question and here on the rel. thread it becomes obvious that the “Bible is bunk” crowd has made their choice. No more pearls for them!

[boatbums]

I believe that the Reformation was a reversal for many on the road to Christ and a return to pagan bloodlust. A rejection of the Christ of the Gospels and an embracing of Odin, Jupiter, or Zeus. With a mixture of Mayan and Aztec practices, I'd think.

You know, I have read some idiodic posts on the RF on various opinions of the "Reformed" theology from an "Orthodox" perspective before, and I have to admit that this takes first prize. Congrats!

[OLD REGGIE]

[ re 2 Tim 3:14-15] Paul speaks in the present and past tense. Nowhere does he even hint that it would be fine to "invent" Tradition as required

Among other things he says

"from infancy you have known [sic] the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

What nonsense! How do infants "know" scripture, or anything for that matter? And how is that possible when such scriptures were not even written yet???

Surely the Old Testament alone (and that was the only scripture in Paul's days) doesn't make anyone "wise for salvation through faith in Chirst Jesus."

I wonder why this was sent to me as it was aannalex who posted it in the first place. I merely mentioned that Paul never mentioned "future" (invented) Tradition.

The verse I might have chosen to buttress my argument is:

2 Thessalonian 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

Is it reasonable to assume Paul was speaking to those who could understand his words? (sarc)

FYI I limited my discussion to TRADITION only.