In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[OLD REGGIE]

"Rome lies. Rome has always lied."

Thank God you are not speaking about the Catholic Church.

Now for the truth. Calvin lied. Calvinists have always lied. Calvinism requires that one first lie to oneself, then to the world, then lie about the Church and lastly lie to God.

This interesting coming from one who defends a church built on forgeries and lies.

Where do you wish to begin?

THE FORGED APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS

THE FORGED "APOSTOLIC CANONS"

THE FORGED LIBER PONTIFICALIS

THE CONVERSION OF CONSTANTINE



THE FORGED LETTER OF ST. PETER THE POPE SYLVESTER FORGERIES

THE FORGED "DONATION OF CONSTANTINE"

THE "SYMMACHIAN FORGERIES"

THE "FALSE DECRETALS" FORGERIES

THE FORGED DECRETUM OF GRATIAN

Lies and forgeries. The path to power and wealth.

[The Comedian]

What’s the status of the signals from your work?

No change in weighted values for those word pairs I sent you.

No new word pairs.

CWII comin' up nowish (or at least lots of talk about it), same with Economic Holocaust.

Looks like tectonics/earthquakes are moving downward in emotional context, if not in intensity. Probably an artifact of just parsing English (if it happens in Indonesia, for example, it won't have the same impact as New Madrid for English-speakers).

I'm trying to make time to implement a new temporal marker algorithm, but haven't done it yet. Basically, 2 months ago I would have said that the tectonics/earthquakes were hours away, and then that solar activity came along and messed up my approach (actually pointed out that my approach was messed up, but that's harder on my ego).

Space Weirdness is turning more accentuated on Confusion/Fear.

Nuclear Terror is shifting closer toward the present, but no change to weighting values.

Expect more strange things in the sky/between the worlds.

I think reality is melting.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[Natural Law]

"This interesting coming from one who defends a church built on forgeries and lies."

That is a pretty harsh characterization of the Revealed Word even for a Protestant.

[1000 silverlings]

you have to ask the current pope as it apparently changes. and accept no substitutes—— whatever “the vatican” announces is “not the pope”.

[RnMomof7]

Now for the truth. Calvin lied. Calvinists have always lied. Calvinism requires that one first lie to oneself, then to the world, then lie about the Church and lastly lie to God.

I will stand before God on the day I die without fear or trembling, because I know the one that declares me redeemed and justified ... I will go from this life into Gods arms... how many Catholics have that assurance ?

[Natural Law]

"I will stand before God on the day I die without fear or trembling, because I know the one that declares me redeemed and justified..."

That's only because you bought into that whole predestined, elect, once saved - always saved nonesense. I have seen enough un-Christian behavior on these threads alone to know you and more than a few of your Calvinist brethren (and "sisteren") are going to be unpleasantly surprised without contrition.

[1000 silverlings]

And one last question for you:

what is the account of Paul doing in the book, The Acts of the Apostles in which he does the acts of the Apostles, if he isn't one?

[boatbums]

You’re welcome! I enjoyed doing the research, myself. :o)

[boatbums]

LOL....you little hooligan!!!

[smvoice]

Another important thing to remember is that in order to be one of the 12 apostles, one had to have been a follower of Christ during His earthly ministry.

Acts 1:21,22."Wherefore of these men which have companied with us ALL THE TIME that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us. Beginning FROM THE BAPTISM of JOHN, UNTO THE SAME DAY THAT THE WAS TAKEN UP FROM US, MUST ONE BE ORDAINED TO BE A WITNESS WITH US OF HIS RESURRECTION." THis is the reason Paul could NOT have taken Judas' place. He was not one who had followed Jesus. And why Barsabas and Matthias were appointed to have lots cast.

Which also make Paul's apostleship more interesting.

"And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: and that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain u nto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James: then of all the apostles. And LAST OF ALL HE WAS SEEN OF ME ALSO, as one born out of due time." 1 Cor. 15:4-8.

Paul was the LAST person to see the risen Christ, both at the moment of his salvation, and the other revelations Christ revealed to him. Face to face, and mouth to mouth.

That Paul refers to himself as the apostle of the Gentiles is not being self-important or conceited. He was given this position and ministry by Christ.

[MarkBsnr]

God in His mercy has made it clear in His Word that the assurance of salvation is granted to any who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and in Him alone for their salvation. Calvinists call this ‘perspicuity.’I am confident the citations to the Word have been provided numerous times in the past.

Many of them conveniently ignore the fact that one cannot repent of future sins. If you repent today and sin tomorrow, your repentence does not extend to tomorrow. If you believe in Jesus and Him alone for salvation, and continue to sin and do not repent as often as you have sinned, that is hardly evidence of perspicuity. That is evidence of self-declared salvation and has no business in Christian belief.

In fact, only the one who endures to the end is manifestly saved (citation omitted), so our election individually is not written where you and I may read it, but I pray that my name is written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. The Bible is replete with how the righteous (elect) will behave. We should all be checking ourselves against the standard He has set for us as set forth in, say, Psalm 1. Again, numerous citations omitted.

The Jews believe that the Book of Life contains all the names of all the humans ever created. It is only by sin and Judgement that one's name is erased. Revelation 3 might be pertinent here.

Revelation 3: 1 1 "To the angel of the church in Sardis, 2 write this: " 'The one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says this: "I know your works, that you have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful and strengthen what is left, which is going to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember then how you accepted and heard; keep it, and repent. If you are not watchful, I will come like a thief, and you will never know at what hour I will come upon you. 4 However, you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; they will walk with me dressed in white, because they are worthy. 5 " '"The victor will thus be dressed in white, 3 and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels.

Your imitation of Christ will cause your name to stay in the Book of Life - presumably the reverse is also true, given the entire Gospel message.

Surely, we do have the Law and the Prophets, and the Lord Himself stated that these would be sufficient to tell us of the way to Heaven. See Luke 16.

It's still the Lord's call. Your Judgement from Him will direct you to Heaven if He determines that you are to be saved.

True - the term ‘elect’ encompasses not all of mankind, for the Calvinist is not a universalist, but perhaps I misunderstand your point, for it seems that the lack of universality is the notion to which you object.

The Book of Life has all men's names written in it. Yet their names can be blotted out for their deeds. Not all men will be saved. Part of the Christian responsibility is to aid all men to be saved. The Beatitudes give some guidance.

This is sort of like the Jews being the ‘chosen people.’ Some take that to mean God chose them because they were special, and therefore they were chosen. Quite the contrary. They are special because God chose them.

The analogy really doesn't work here. The Jews were chosen; Christians are grafted in to the vine. Those who are unChristian are cut off and thrown away to be burned.

The elect are chosen by God purely on His own merit and by His own grace and mercy. They are not saved because they are elect. They are elect because they are saved, and that not of themselves. Nothing to boast about, unless they boast in Christ. More citations omitted.

Even Paul preaches the gospel of Judgement by deeds.

[MarkBsnr]

We should all stop writing when we feel adrenaline........

True enough. It does not invalidate my statement, though.

[MarkBsnr]

I am immensely flattered when I am assailed by them. :)

Mind that swelled head...:)

[boatbums]

That's only because you bought into that whole predestined, elect, once saved - always saved nonesense. I have seen enough un-Christian behavior on these threads alone to know you and more than a few of your Calvinist brethren (and "sisteren") are going to be unpleasantly surprised without contrition.

Thanks for the opportunity I have to discuss my ideas about this very thing.

You mock those who, through faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, trust in the mercy and grace of God to hold them in his hands justified and sanctified by the blood of Christ. You also claim to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior. So what exactly will differentiate us in the eyes of God when we face eternity?

The strawdog that keeps being thrown-up (literally) is that the OSAS crowd thinks they can live as they please, sin all they want, take advantage of grace, snub their noses at God's commandments and he will ignore it all and welcome them and only them to their "mansions in the sky" - via a limousine, yet!

I can't even remember how many times you and yours have been corrected about this misconception, but it has had no effect, the lies keep getting spewed. So that no excuse can be made that we never spoke about it, let me reiterate:

1. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Nothing we do earns this grace, because then it wouldn't be grace if somehow you do something to earn it. It is a GIFT of God.

2. Those who trust in Christ are born again into the family of God. We, who once were at enmity with God, are now at peace through Christ who died for us.

3. NO ONE can come to God with any of their own merit and ALL must fall upon the mercy of God in humbleness of spirit. Those that rely on their good deeds to earn heaven are cast away because it can NEVER pay the penalty for sin. If Christ did not come to save us, we would all be condemned, with no hope, dead in our sins.

4. Those who are redeemed are also renewed. There is a new nature that is not under slavery to sin - we are indwelt with God's Holy Spirit. The more mature our faith grows, the less influence the sin nature has because God is working his holiness within us. Those whose outward lives show no inward change, are not really in the faith because there is the fruit of righteousness that comes from genuine faith. It can't be faked before God.

5. A child of God, can, at times, be disobedient and fall into sin. But we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and we are held by him never to be lost or cast away. Sin causes lost fellowship with our Father and he is always working within us to bring us back through repentance and confession - he is faithful to always forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We will be disciplined by a just and merciful Heavenly Father and, for some who refuse his discipline, he may allow suffering even to death, though his child will still be saved. We don't do anything to earn grace and we cannot do anything to keep it either.

So, now that that is cleared away, my point: If a person comes to Christ in faith and bears the fruit of righteousness in his life, will he be saved? Conversely, if a person comes to Christ, in faith "believing in him", but also striving to do good works because he does not accept that he needs faith alone in Christ alone, will he be saved? Both examples show people who "have faith" and have "good works", so which one is truly saved?

[esquirette]

Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient for all the sins of all of His people. Otherwise, He failed, and that cannot be.

John says that he who continues in sin has neither seen Him nor known Him, so that continuing in sin argument is a distinction without a difference. Those who know Him will avoid sin.

We will always sin more than we repent. We have no idea of our effect on this world and on others.

But most importantly, if we deny a limited atonement, we take away the greatest hope, for it is clear that not all men will be saved.

“. . .if you believe that Christ died for all men in the same way, then the benefits of the cross cannot include the mercy by which we are brought to faith, because then all men would be brought to faith, but they aren’t. But if the mercy by which we are brought to faith (irresistible grace) is not part of what Christ purchased on the cross, then we are left to save ourselves from the bondage of sin, the hardness of heart, the blindness of corruption, and the wrath of God.

“Therefore it becomes evident that it is not the Calvinist who limits the atonement. It is the Arminian, because he denies that the atoning death of Christ accomplishes what we most desperately need — namely, salvation from the condition of deadness and hardness and blindness under the wrath of God. The Arminian limits the nature and value and effectiveness of the atonement so that he can say that it was accomplished even for those who die in unbelief and are condemned. In order to say that Christ died for all men in the same way, the Arminian must limit the atonement to a powerless opportunity for men to save themselves from their terrible plight of depravity.” ~John Piper

[boatbums]

That Paul refers to himself as the apostle of the Gentiles is not being self-important or conceited. He was given this position and ministry by Christ.

I agree and if Paul was being conceited in calling himself an Apostle - multiple times, in every epistle - then he would not be the one chosen by Christ. I think Peter and the others "jumped the gun" in their hurry to name another Apostle. Nowhere do we have the Lord telling them to cast lots to decide. I think Jesus chose who he wanted in that position and, later on, Peter and the others accepted it.

[MarkBsnr]

Reformed theology appeals to people who at some point in their lives were "not very nice." Perhaps they were ostracized by others, constantly in trouble, and on the wrong side of the law, literally lost in their misfortune, and someone came to them and said "Jesus loves you."

Certainly a good thesis. I'd also add that it appealed to a lot of robber barons who feel the onset of mortality, and all of a sudden get super sized Jiminy Cricket chirping at them and this is the only way to quiet him.

They are saved, they can do now wrong in God;s eyes, no matter what they do, what they say, how much they fail. They have been given the ultimate assurance that, contrary to human realization that we are all ignorant, nasty and selfish creatures by nature, they will be rescued in an easy way with magic words. Anyone can do that, even the worst of us. Hecne the appeal. Reformed "worship" is all about "God loves me, halleluyah", a pagan-like spectacle one would expect to see in a pagan temple, all swaying their hands in the air like something from "Indiana Jones" movie.

Mob emotion can be a frightful thing - look at the rallies used by some of the finest dictators in the world.

Catholic and Orthodox worship and theology is like that tax collector in the Gospels who feels so undeserving he can't even look up, but can only beg God for mercy. How could you expect people who seek low self-image therapy and food for their narcissistic nature to subscribe to that?! Consequently, I think people end up in a camp that suits their personality and world view, as well as self image. You see the same segragation among Muslims (for exmaple Sufis and more ilitatnt groups) and Jews (Orthodox, reofrmed, Liberal, etc).

I wonder what that says about folks like me who wandered afield and was largely horrified by what I found and hurried back home after my stint in the sty...

[MarkBsnr]

I will stand before God on the day I die without fear or trembling, because I know the one that declares me redeemed and justified ... I will go from this life into Gods arms... how many Catholics have that assurance ?

None. We are the tax collector in Luke 18. We are not the Calvinist Pharisee giving thanks that they are not Catholic and are sure of their salvation. We await Christ in the hope of salvation (Paul) and work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Paul) in the knowledge that we will be Judged on our deeds (Paul). We don't reject Paul any more than we reject Christ. We reject a false view of Paul - the one that the Marcionists and uncounted other heretics had since that time.

Since Apostolic times, we have held to that belief; numerous incarnations of heretics have rejected that belief and adopted a Gnostic indwelling knowledge of their own salvation.

[MarkBsnr]

Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for the sins of the whole world.

John says that he who continues in sin has neither seen Him nor known Him, so that continuing in sin argument is a distinction without a difference. Those who know Him will avoid sin.

Name one man.

We will always sin more than we repent. We have no idea of our effect on this world and on others.

That is not Christian belief and never has been.

But most importantly, if we deny a limited atonement, we take away the greatest hope, for it is clear that not all men will be saved.

This makes no sense whatsoever. All men are extended the promise of God's graces; not all men accept it, or keep it. Remember the parable of the strewn seed.

“. . .if you believe that Christ died for all men in the same way, then the benefits of the cross cannot include the mercy by which we are brought to faith, because then all men would be brought to faith, but they aren’t. But if the mercy by which we are brought to faith (irresistible grace) is not part of what Christ purchased on the cross, then we are left to save ourselves from the bondage of sin, the hardness of heart, the blindness of corruption, and the wrath of God.

False premise. This says that it is either a powerless God or a robot slave man that leads to salvation. Neither is in the Gospel message of Christ.

“Therefore it becomes evident that it is not the Calvinist who limits the atonement. It is the Arminian, because he denies that the atoning death of Christ accomplishes what we most desperately need — namely, salvation from the condition of deadness and hardness and blindness under the wrath of God. The Arminian limits the nature and value and effectiveness of the atonement so that he can say that it was accomplished even for those who die in unbelief and are condemned. In order to say that Christ died for all men in the same way, the Arminian must limit the atonement to a powerless opportunity for men to save themselves from their terrible plight of depravity.” ~John Piper

Your Mr. Piper is full of arrant nonsense. TULIP preaches Limited atonement. He is arguing against himself. He fails here on the very basics of Calvinism. Certainly on the basics of Christianity.