In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother/sister in Christ!

Truly, I should have clarified that I was speaking of Spiritual genealogy.

I actually am convinced that Paul, not Matthias, was chosen by God to replace Judas. This also I looked at very carefully. But the important part is Paul was selected by the Lord Himself....and what a story that was and remains to this day!..

I very strongly agree.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. – Galatians 1:11-19

God's Name is I AM.

[smvoice]

I actually am convinced that Paul, not Matthias, was chosen by God to replace Judas.

The problem with this is that the 12 Disciples are to reign with Christ over the 12 Tribes of Israel in the Millenial Kingdom. In order to be one of those 12, they had to have "companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection." Acts 1:21,22.

That automatically ruled out Paul, as he saw Christ after His ascension, in Heaven. He never companied Christ while Christ walked on this earth. There were two men that could have met the requirement to replace Judas, Joseph called Barsabas, and Matthias.

Paul's commission from the risen Christ had to do with forming the Church the Body of Christ and the Gospel of the Grace of God, not the Kingdom Gospel. He was called by the risen Christ for something other than replacing Judas and judging one of the twelve tribes.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your testimony, dear brother/sister in Christ!

Truly, I should have explained that I was speaking of Spiritual genealogy, not physical genealogy.

Apparently, it is the Holy Spirit's own will to move by the laying on of the hands:

Peter learned in the conversion of Cornelis that God moves according to His own will:

And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? – Acts 11:15-17

As another example, the Red Sea did not part because Moses lifted his rod, rather God parted it according to Moses' faith that He would do so if he did.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward: But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry [ground] through the midst of the sea. - Exodus 14:15-16

And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go [back] by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry [land], and the waters were divided. - Exodus 14:21

Moses believed God and trusted Him. The glory for the parting of the Red Sea goes to God, not Moses.

Likewise, when our prayers are answered, the glory goes to God, not to the one(s) praying.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. – Mark 11:24-26

And likewise the glory for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit goes to God, not to the men who laid their hands on the converts.

And again,

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. – I Corinthians 3:1-7

There are no magic words or deeds.

It is "about" God - loving Him, believing Him and trusting Him.

Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. - Matthew 9:29

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your view, dear smvoice!

Nevertheless, I perceive that Paul is the last of the twelve Apostles because he was chosen and directly taught by Christ, like the other Apostles. Also, the lots were cast for Matthias before Pentecost.

For me, it is a matter of Who did the choosing. But one day we'll know for sure.

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. - Revelation 21:14

And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. - Revelation 21:19-20

God's Name is I AM.

[OLD REGGIE]

"...when I provide biblical precedents for replacing a deceased apostle and an infallible Church council, you scoff."

How soon after the death of Judas did this take place?

[count-your-change]

Yes, quite so. Schaff’s History is excellent.

[smvoice]

But I will add that the Disciples had already received the Spirit in John 20:22. In Acts 1:8 they "receive power". The power of the Spirit came upon them on the day of Pentecost and Peter and the others amazed their Jewish brethren from other nations, as they heard them speak in their own language. (Acts 2:7,8).

John 20:22 says "And when he said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." This was BEFORE the day of Pentecost, when they received power. In John 20:22 they were given their commission and given the power- of- attorney to do the works of Christ. This included the keys to the kingdom, retaining and remitting of sins, and the power to "whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt. 16:19.

When they met to choose a replacement for Judas, they had the power of attorney to bind in heaven what they were binding on earth.

Because of this power of attorney they had been given by Christ, I don't understand how they could be "wrong" about their choice of Matthias.

But at the same time, I do not want you to think I am arguing a point with you..:) I am just reading their commission differently than you, I suppose.:)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What Dr. Eckleburg clearly disputed are your claims that inquisition was "only concerned with public, baptized Catholics", and that "Jews and Muslims were outside of its scope." Dr. Eckleburg didn't say anything about the Spanish Inquisition per se. You did. Resorting here to your modifier, "Spanish" to the class of Inquisitions as though that single class were representative of the whole class of Inquisitions is utterly fallacious and impotent to rebut in the least anything Dr. Eckleburg actually said,

Sorry, Dr. Eckleburg is not deceitful just because you commit a fallacy of hasty generalization.

Thank you, Diamond. I appreciate your consistent and faithful witness to God's word...and my post. 8~)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I guess the Catholic church has had a real change of heart then, from the the Crusades of trying to eliminate islam to embracing it and kissing the koran.

That's because Rome sees the reformers as a greater threat to its power than Islam. The muzzies are big fans of Mary AND authoritarianism.

[RnMomof7]

And seeing Jesus' image on the side of a barn or a slice of toast doesn't count.

Ohhhh poop

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Do you believe homosexual priest are a good thing that the Holy Spirit wants in the Church?

We're learned on these threads that once a man undergoes the ritual of priestly orders, he becomes "another Christ" for life. He never loses that exalted position, meaning for the rest of his life, NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, he remains closer to Christ than you and me.

Thus, the winks and nods between Rome and the bishops. Homosexual priests aren't punished because they are entitled to more than a regular man. No marriage, no women, but...

If Rome really believed homosexual priests were an abomination against God, it would 1) get rid of all the homosexual priests and 2) dump the celibacy requirement.

[RnMomof7]

That automatically ruled out Paul, as he saw Christ after His ascension, in Heaven. He never companied Christ while Christ walked on this earth. There were two men that could have met the requirement to replace Judas, Joseph called Barsabas, and Matthias.

The greek meaning of the word is simply one sent by a messenger ..Paul was sent by Christ..

The only reference to the definition you chose is found in Acts 1:21 before the church was founded, before there was an indwelling Holy Spirit.. It is Peters parameters for picking a replacement for Judas.

As has been pointed out, there is no biblical president for Apostolic succession.. Christ never gave them directions or permission to replace Judas.. This was Peters idea and Peters rules we see here, not Christs..We have no right to impose Peters rules on Christ..

Christ called Paul to be an apostle .. unless the word of God if wrong and Paul a liar

[RnMomof7]

No. Paul was talking about Jewish priest lines who claim genealogies like Cohens. The only Apostle who had a successor at the time was Judas and Paul never criticized that.

Thta is still true in the catholic church. the priest is a SPECIAL SET ASIDE person who can perform rituals that ordinary men can not

Apparently, it is the Holy Spirit's own will to move by the laying on of the hands:

The laying of hands dated back to Genesis. Jacob laid hands on his children and pronounced various blessings on them (Gen. 48:17).

Laying of hands was done to invoke blessings on someone. Jesus laid hands on children to show His approval of them (Mt. 19:15).

During a sacrifice the Priest would lay hands on the animal symbolically transferring the sins of the people to the animal

The laying on of hands was also an OT tradition that symbolized the giving of authority, it was a commission

The NT indicates three events where the Holy Spirit was imparted by the laying on of hands.BUT we also see the Holy Spirit come on men and women through other means

My Pastor was ordained as were all the other elders in our church by the laying on of hands, a commission, a sending forth by the people to go and serve the Lord.. He has told us that He was so comforted by that act as the hands and prayer confirmed the call he had felt by God..

To believe on can order the Holy Spirit to come down and impart special gifts based on our action is nothing more that the sin of pride . It is almost as prideful as believing one can lock Jesus up in a little golden box

[Alamo-Girl]

Again, thank you for sharing your views, dear smvoice!

But again I aver that what matters is Who did the choosing.

In Acts 1, they gave God a choice between two, Joseph and Mattias. That was a false dichotomy (emphasis mine.)

and having prayed, they said, `Thou, Lord, who art knowing the heart of all, shew which one thou didst choose of these two - Acts 1:24 (Young's Literal)

It would be like a faithful Christian maiden asking God whether she should marry Bill or John and then flipping a coin for His answer.

She may never have imagined God would want her to marry horrifying Harold. But God knew. Her coin toss was a false dichotomy.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your insights, dear sister in Christ!

[RnMomof7]

We were also talking about the proper historical context to interpret scripture. Anyway, I totally demolished your challenges to demonstrate apostolic succession and Church infallibility using Scripture.

LOL LOL LOL you have proved NOTHING using scripture

Would you link me to that again I must have missed it.

There is NO SCRIPTURE of Christ giving permission for the apostles to replace their number, THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE of Jesus giving the apostles PERMISSION to pass on the special gifts given to them for the foundation of the church

There is NO SCRIPTURE that there is a priesthood in the NT Church, there is NO SCRIPTURE for an infallible Peter or papacy

So please if you have these scriptures PLEASE point me to them ...

[smvoice]

I LOVE your example! Like I said, we just have a different way of seeing their commission. Maranatha!

smvoice

[Alamo-Girl]

Again, thank you for sharing your insights, dear sister in Christ!

[RnMomof7]

Excellent analogy sister !

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragement, dear smvoice!

May God ever bless you and your loved ones.

Marantha, Jesus!!!