Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Natural Law wrote:
“Saint Paul is venerated by the Catholic Church and his writings are part of the revealed Word of God. What the Church does not accept or promote is the notion that Paul’s writings are on par with or superior to the Gospel as revealed by Christ Himself. When read in support of the Gospel Paul is glorious. However, when presented as a stand alone revelation they are misleading. The sin does not lie with St. Paul, but with those who would corrupt his work.”
Sorry, but this is nonsense, except for the last sentence, which condemns who? All Scripture is stand alone. All Scripture supports all other Scripture. All Scripture is on par with all other Scripture.
Now to be sure, one can recognize a certain structure and organization of Holy Scripture, which structure and organization are inherent to it, and thus of divine origin. There is also a certain order of presentation, but the Author of the Holy Scriptures is the One who presented it in such order. Yet all Scripture is “God-breathed,” and, as we were reminded not many posts before, profitable for instruction etc., etc. To set Paul against, say, the Gospels is surely wrong. But to set the Gospels against Paul is just as wrong. If that is not true you are saying, whether you realize it or not, that God either contradicts Himself (not possible!) or that some parts of Scripture as not as divine as other parts (and who, pray tell, decides that?).
No, Paul and Peter, John and James, Luke and Matthew, Mark and, yes, the unknown author of Hebrews as well, all speak as one; and all are in complete agreement with the One who is the focus, content, and concern of the whole of the Scriptures and of their every part. He is their Lord, not they His. They spoke as He willed, and did not in even the most minor of points veer from His truth. To try to divide the Holy Scriptures is the work not of Christ but of Antichrist. “Scripture cannot be broken.” (John 10:35) Whose words are those?
Things can transform quickly. The 1c Jews did not expect the Messiah to come in their lifetimes either (John 1:46). But I agree, the reality is that the Christians leave the Holy Land, whereas they are supposed to gather in it. On the other hand, no one said that the Second Coming of Christ is to happen any time soon.
To speak as if any significant number of Catholics "listen" to the Catholic Church in their daily life is pure fantasy.
That many Catohlic don't obey the Church is true, this is why I said "to the extent that...". But some do listen, enough apparently to swing elections in the US for a few recent occasions, as one example. The constant attention, usually negative, that the left and the media give the Church is another example. Observe that the Protestants views and opinions are rarely an object of any attention, unless it is some dim-witted pastor in some backwater doing something especially stupid.
The primary argument is that Protestantism is not consistent with what Jesus Christ taught as is evident from the scripture. That there are 8,196 Protestant denominations (if that is the preferred number) is a consequence of this, but in itself only proves that the Holy Spirit has left their buildings, however many they count them.
The Catholic Rites and jurisdictions are not
denominations. All Catholics agree with all the dogmas of the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church regardless of the locale and the preferred rite. Whne a Byzantine Catholic crosses himslef right shouldre to left, and a Latin Catholic cross himself left shoulder to right, they are not diagreeing over anything. But when the Prtestants cannot agree if the free will exists, to pick one example, that is a real doctrinal disagreement.
The Curch does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or to go into Latin Rite priesthood. These are things people do voluntarily.
And yet it denies marriage to the "priesthood", specifically contradicting Paul, and again meatless friday's (or Mortal sin) in direct opposition to scripture.
That’s at least 7 years off . . . at the end of the Great 7 year Tribulation.
Lots of people have said it’s going to be relatively soon.
But when the Prtestants cannot agree if the free will exists, to pick one example, that is a real doctrinal disagreement.
And yet even Arminians and the Reformed believe that Salvation is by Grace alone thru Faith alone in Christ Alone.
The Orthodox don't believe in the Pope, yet you admit they are Christians.
You have stumbled upon one of the irreconcilable differences between Protestantism and Christianity. To claim that the letters of Paul are equal to the actual teachings of Christ Himself diminishes the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus. It makes Him an unnecessary side story in the Revealed Word.
I am a Christian, not a Biblican, Paulican or Protestant precisely because I believe that the highest order in the Revealed Word are the teachings of Jesus. The rest of the Bible is important only in how it prepares for and supports those teachings.
History is full of the record of charlatans who have claimed that God spoke exclusively to them and they, for some price or concession, will pass it along to you. Jesus broke from that practice and let others, eye witnesses, relay His teachings. To put the out of context versus and letters of Paul on par with the direct quotes of Jesus makes a charlatan of Paul.
Of course I said nothing remotely like what you are asserting. Instead of reading (and thinking about) what I said, you just got up on your soap box and began declaiming. By Christ’s own declaration, we know that the entirety of the Scriptures is about Him. And although in the context of John 5:39, He is speaking about the then existent Scriptures, i.e., the OT, by extension and by the explicit statements of His own personally chosen apostles, the NT is also all about Him.
If you want to see the OT as the introduction to Him, the Gospels as actually presenting Him, and the rest of the NT as providing commentary on the Gospels, that is pretty much the truth of it. But again, which part of this tripartite proclamation of the Christ, the Son of God and Son of Man, is not given from heaven, is not the Word of God? Which part is less truthful than which other part? Which part is not about Christ?
Finally, I haven’t “stumbled upon” anything. I went right into the darkened room in which you are fumbling around and laid my hands on “one of the irreconcilable differences between” the Roman wing of Christianity and the Christian wing of Christianity (to somewhat paraphrase the hapless Howard Dean). So, let me say it again, child of Rome, the letters of Paul (and of Peter, James, John, and all the rest) are the actual teachings of Christ Himself. They differ in no way from anything that came out of His mouth. He is the King, they the ambassadors. The ambassadors say nothing that the King doesn’t will them to say. To believe otherwise is make God the author of confusion.
Projecting one’s own confusion onto God is not a salutary manner of proceeding.
A. Dishonest?
B. Product of a warped mind?
C. Ignorant?
D. Hate personified?
E. All of the above.
Answer: E.
Its good that you choose to get it off your chest. Confession is good for the soul.
MATTHEW - NAB
13:55 Is he not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?
STRONGS GREEK DEFINITION
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.
Whether "profitable", "useful", or another word it certainly is good enough perfect the man of God.
Of course you will not find it in Scripture, you are looking in the wrong place(s).
You must read the parenthetical note in Douay Rheims to find the "explanation".
Matthew 13:55 "[55] "His brethren"... These were the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, (St. Matt. 27. 56; St. John 19. 25,) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour."
Simple isn't it?
I second that declaration. We are fortunate to have annalex among us in that regard.
You guys are nuts, Leoni is the true and honest FR Catholic source, love him or hate him he isn't milquetoast. Can't get enough of his posts especially on a Reformation Day thread
AMEN!
Rome exhibits a basic misunderstanding of God's intent in giving us the Scriptures.
God has always spoken by His word. The Ten Commandments were written. The Old Testament was written. The New Testament was written. Men are conceptual beings and the written word is the way God has ordained to reach His children through the guidance of the Holy Spirit who renews our minds to understand the things of God.
Each of us who have been adopted by God from the beginning of time makes up the invisible church of Jesus Christ on earth. And the particular churches who are the members of the visible church of Jesus Christ on earth are mandated by God to follow His word in order to sanctify His family and bring them to repentance, obedience, faith and salvation.
Rome intrudes a false partition into that foundation which separates men according to their adherence to Rome's dictates, and not according to the instructions set down by God in the Bible.
But as Paul assures us...
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his." - 2 Timothy 2:19
The 25th chapter of the Westminster Confession of Faith teaches...
V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error;[10] and some have so degenerated, as to become no Churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan.[11] Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth to worship God according to His will.[12]V. This catholic (universal) Church has been sometimes more, sometimes less visible.[8] And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.[9]
Because Rome does not teach and embrace the doctrine of the Gospel, but instead chooses to preach "another mediator" through "another gospel" by "another Christ," Rome does not "equip" its members adequately. As we've heard from RC apologists on this thread, Rome does not believe God's word to be "profitable" nor "useful" above all else. Instead, Rome elevates man-made traditions and the doctrines of men above the word of God, and thus, Rome stands outside the church of Christ on earth.
I am sorry to say I have never read a post from Leoni. I will look for his posts. Thanks for the information!
He had a bunch on the Sola Scriptura thread.
What is of more interest is not whether Mary had other children, which she clearly did because Scripture clearly teaches so, but WHY it’s so important to Catholics to portray Mary as having always been a virgin when, once she delivered Jesus and the prophecy was fulfilled, her continued virginity was totally irrelevant.
The prophecy was that a virgin conceive and bear a son.
The prophecy wasn’t that she always remain a virgin.
So, why does the RCC teach a non-issue as a matter of doctrine? Why make it doctrine?
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