[MHGinTN]

“Am I the only person here who sees there's something intrinsically dishonest about their entire approach to science — and to reality?” Having now read that little session with Dawkins and Pinker, I would say they were practicing a particularly deceitful form of presentation, assuming as axiomatic that which they sought to discredit. Both start with the assumption that science has finally ended the ghost in the machine, then they set about to use that axiom as the basis for proving there is no ‘ghost in the machine’! Neither of the ‘intellectual giants’ can answer how it is that random mutation (noise as it were) adds any positive aspect to the species genetic coding! And they avoid all together the elephant in their music rooms by avoiding the truth that what holds and passes the identity of the species is information/coded data, probably because the acknowledgment of this reality—that a code requires a coder, one to generate the code as a means to hold and pass information--is the reality they choose to deny regardless of the evidences.

[Diamond]

“Am I the only person here who sees there's something intrinsically dishonest about their entire approach to science — and to reality?”

No, MHGinTN, you're not the only one. If their materialist view of reality were actually taken to it's logical conclusion, knowledge, science and reason itself would be impossible. So very time they use these immaterial laws of thought, though they do not acknowledge it, they are unwitting testimonials to the greatness of the transcendent Creator, the great Coder, if you will, to Whom they refuse to give thanks and to worship.

Cordially,

[betty boop]

Having now read that little session with Dawkins and Pinker, I would say they were practicing a particularly deceitful form of presentation, assuming as axiomatic that which they sought to discredit. Both start with the assumption that science has finally ended the ghost in the machine, then they set about to use that axiom as the basis for proving there is no ‘ghost in the machine’!

Oh, you really "nail it" here, dear MHGinTN! This is an exercise in pure "sleight of hand...." Talk about intellectual dishonesty!!!