Posted on 10/25/2010 4:50:55 AM PDT by Colofornian
Heck no....!!! LOL!!
You have nothing personally to throw into the mix....
PD....that's a sign. I love you brother..or sister. I really do....you need to see the Truth. It's not where you are at now.
FRegards,
A most excellent analogy! And a modern example of the supposed God inspired head of their religion a few years ago, Gordon B. Hinckley, was fooled by a forger selling supposed visions written down by Joseph Smith. When the firgeries were uncovered (not by the supposed God directed Hinckley) Gordon B. excused himself with the assertion that even Jesus was fooled during his ministry! I’m still waiting for a Momron apologist to show me just one example of Jesus being fooled during His ministry ... and until then, Hinckley’s lack of ‘spiritual insight’ is duly noted.
Where this doctrine slips, first, is not acknowledging the Christian way of life IS a spiritual way of life. God made man in body, soul, AND SPIRIT.
Once a believer has faith in Christ, God performs all the rest, providing the regenerated human spirit to the believer.
Different believers have different spiritual gifts, which is one very important reason to remain grounded in Bible doctrine through faith in the Christ of Scripture, thereby being in the right time and place spiritually, for God the Holy Spirit to further sanctify our thinking, through the human spirit He has provided each of us.
Indeed there are locations in Hades which are prisons, and yes, unbelievers after the first death are in a place of torment, awaiting the Great White Throne Judgment.
For believers, we do not receive the resurrected body until the proper time, but absent the body we are still with the Lord, who we know today is in Heaven.
There ain't NO Mormons that knows what JS 'learned' was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism!
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Galatians 1:7-10
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. Revelation 13:13-15
13. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
It appears that EXPERIENCES can be deceiving...
If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.
If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.
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are you SURE??
After all; it's NOT on Brother PD's list of links.
--MormonDude(When would be a good timwe for a couple of our well trained young folks to drop by your home and more fully explain the Restored Gospel® to you hateful bigots?)
I guess you've given up trying to find out what Joseph 'learned' was not true about PRESBYTERIANism; eh?
I'd think you'd REALLY like to know; since you claim to have BEEN ONE for years...
please clarify the distinction between that which is of the Lord from that of the occult?
Well...
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
Who is typing for you now?
Your fangs are showing....
Every child of God is an individual and the need to know is according to Lord to disposed.
What Sally needs knowledge of might not be the same situation that Josie is living.
Dealing the victim card is unbecoming T Minus Four
Given that ‘revelation’ process (divining with a familiar spirit by any other name), I find it curious that Smith included the name Lucifer in a passage supposedly from Isaiah of 600BC which was carried along when the original journey was made to this continent ... sinc ethe name Lucifer is a Latin name and didn’t even make it into the scriptures until around the second century and was found then in the King James Bible! In 600 BC the Latin language didn’t even exist!
Then WHY are you so LAZY to not POST what you 'find'?
PD
It just gets harder and harder try to diologue with Atherosclerosis clan!
After all he did not say WHAT he found in 30 seconds...
I tend to doubt your sincerity especially based on your choice of wording “differences between the Christian church and LDS beliefs”.
But, if you seriously want to engage in conversation, this board is hardly the place to do it. By all means do read all they have to say but seek answers elsewhere too.
There are links to speak with official Church personnel as well as “apologists” on a few of those sites. If you are sincere I am sure you can find someone to “engage” you.
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Deconstructing Linus: Portrait of a True Believing Pumpkinist as a Young Man "Each year on Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises out of the pumpkin patch that he thinks is the most sincere and flies through the air with his pack of toys for all the good little children in the world." No. This is about sincerity, a subjective standard by any definition. |
I wonder if Linus blames himself every year for not picking the most sincere pumpkin patch for his vigil?
I wonder if other Great Pumpkinists castigate Linus by asserting if he were more in tune with the Spirit of the Great Pumpkin, if he were more prayerful, if he read the Holy Writ of the Great Pumpkin with a greater sincerity, that he could indeed rise to the challenge and, via the Spirit, be lead to choose the most sincere pumpkin patch?
I wonder how many years Linus will feel guilty for this failure and blame himself for receiving no answer no matter how sincere he believes himself to be?
I wonder if Linus ever gets frustrated because there is no objective way to measure sincerity? And if he realizes there is no objective standard for such a thing, I wonder if it ever creeps into his mind that his annual mission is nothing more than mindless busywork?
I wonder, does Linus ever has doubts?
For the time being, however, Linus will put aside his doubts and, perhaps as a means of proving his sincerity, begins to proselyte among his friends for converts. Most shrug him off. But Sally, who has a crush on him, believes Linus and agrees to spend Halloween in Linus’ Pumpkin Patch.
Linus then explains that by using positive language and positive thinking, they may be able to attract the Great Pumpkin to their Patch. He also cautions Sally that negative language and negative thinking will cause the Great Pumpkin to pass them by.
There is no room for doubt when one is a Great Pumpkinist. One should never say if the Great Pumpkin comes but always when the Great Pumpkin comes. "One little slip like that, can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by!" It’s hard to imagine a benevolent icon such as the Great Pumpkin punishing TBPs (True Believing Pumkinists) for such a minor infraction, but there you have it.
Sally: The Birth of an Ex-Pumpkinist
Because Sally loves her “sweet baboo” Linus, she sets aside her own Halloween plans of trick-or-treating and a Halloween party in order to spend the evening in the Pumpkin Patch. She converts to Great Pumpkinism because she loves Linus. She respects his opinion. And she wants to make him happy and be supportive. And besides, if it’s really true, WOW! Wouldn’t that be fantastic?
But in the end, the only Being that shows up in the Pumpkin Patch is Snoopy. Linus, believing Snoopy to be the Great Pumpkin, swoons into an ecstatic faint, happy in the knowledge that he has finally deciphered the Great Pumpkin’s standard for sincerity. But, alas, it is a misplaced hope, and when Linus regains consciousness, there is not only no Great Pumpkin there to reward him, there is one upset little girl.
"I was robbed! I spent the whole night waiting for the Great Pumpkin when I could have been out for tricks or treats! Halloween is over and I missed it! You blockhead! You kept me up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin and all that came was a beagle!"
"I didn't get a chance to go out for tricks or treats! And it was all your fault! I'll sue! What a fool I was. And I could have had candy apples and gum! And cookies and money and all sorts of things! But no, I had to listen to you! You blockhead. What a fool I was. Trick or treats come only once a year. And I missed it by sitting in a pumpkin patch with a blockhead. You owe me restitution!"
Luckily for Sally, she only missed one Halloween. And though she is demanding restitution, because her participation was voluntary, she will never receive said restitution. She’ll simply have to accept the experience as one of life’s absurdities and move on.
However, one can hope that this experience has made Sally a more skeptical person, so that the next time she is presented with such fantastic claims, she’ll perhaps be inclined to do her research before committing any time, money or emotion.
After all, fantastic claims should be supported by fantastic evidence, right?
The question now becomes, has this experience made Linus a skeptic? After yet again not having his Pumpkin Patch recognized as sincere and after having endangered his friendship with Sally, will he continue to believe?
In spite of a complete and utter lack of evidence pointing to the existence of the Great Pumpkin, and a complete and utter lack of the Great Pumpkin’s Promise ever having been fulfilled, Linus is a True Believing Pumpkinist to the core. To even admit the possibility that he may be wrong would be to negate all those years of hard work and sincere belief. Linus simply cannot turn his back on his belief.
So if Linus doesn't become an ex-Pumpkinist, what is his strategy? Well, he’s going to keep on trying, isn't he?
"What do you mean, 'stupid'? Just wait until next year. I'll find a pumpkin patch, and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch and it'll be a sincere pumpkin patch, and the Great Pumpkin will come! Just you wait and see! I'll sit in that pumpkin patch, and I'll see the Great Pumpkin. Just wait until next year!"
Output from the MORMOfied ELIZA program!
http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
Hey pppp!
Run the above program and ask your questions.
At LEAST you'll get answers!
You have a Restored Gospel (R)? Kewl. Ummm, what was wrong with the original one? Water damage? Graffiti? Faded in the sun?
At what point...will you actually respond to legit questions, and curious folks, with good query’s?
I do. Constantly. Almost daily. I give you the sources for the truth you supposedly seek. The rest is up to you.
OH! I get it YOU are one of the fortunate few who have repented and now "have a need to know".
Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
* Believing that you’re better than others
* Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
* Exaggerating your achievements or talents
* Expecting constant praise and admiration
* Believing that you’re special and acting accordingly
* Failing to recognize other people’s emotions and feelings
* Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
* Taking advantage of others
* Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
* Being jealous of others
* Believing that others are jealous of you
* Trouble keeping healthy relationships
* Setting unrealistic goals
* Being easily hurt and rejected
* Having a fragile self-esteem
* Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it’s not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don’t value themselves more than they value others.
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don’t receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having “the best” of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.
Sounds like the Detroit Lions, the Mormons of the football world.
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