Church: Mormons can't lead Scouts

Charlotte Observer ^ | Oct. 19, 2010 | Tim Funk

[Elsie]

Christianity requires sacrifice and often times the loss of wealth or your life.

Becoming a state or suffering the above?

What shall we MORMONs do?????

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    OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

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President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

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EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

 

 

 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

 

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???

 

compared to...

 

 

 

 

Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 

 

or compared to...

 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

 

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So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

 

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

 

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Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 

[Elsie]

My son, a Catholic, was harrassed when their Scouting group which started in a public school had to move to a Mormon Church.

WHO did the harrassing?

[Utah Binger]

I hear that most MORMONs are not even 'worthy' enough to get into their OWN temples!

Some of us simply told little fibs, wink, wink, nod, nod. One of the Bishops interviewing was an old drinking buddy.

[Godzilla]

Now, ‘zilla, don’t read into reaganaut’s statement. All she was saying was that I knew that she was a girl. Remember, as my little old white-haired English teacher taught us, “Nouns have gender; people have sex.”

[Godzilla]

SEX is what you DO!

Verbs, thats whats happening

[burnsfam6]

Hello.
I am an LDS Youth Leader and Scout Leader.

I can tell w/out a doubt that although we strive to generally teach the youth a more principled and character centered life we oftentimes make mistakes as do they.

The boys are bound by the same constraints that everyone is under. As a leader, I can tell you that we invest the same time, energy and tears that other youth leaders do on the topic of bullying.

I am sorry your son has had to endure personal attacks, my son has to. It’s not fun to watch your child suffer. My son is a swimmer at his HS and, invariably, some of the more type A kids mess with the kinder kids to the point of exhaustion. I cannot reasonably blame the swim team or the coaches for the apparaent lack of character in one or a set of individuals.

That said, I hope that we can, respectfully, agree that it would be unfair to imply that the LDS Church is responsible for the bullying.

This life is not always easy - but it is certainly worth it.

[Uri’el-2012]

I'm afraid you have been mis-informed and misled.

May you seek the YHvH of the Holy Word of G-d.

Seek His face in His Holy Word.

Then one day, you will be grafted into His Chosen People.

See Romans 11 as to who is grafted into whom.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Colofornian]

To be a Scout, you dont have to declare a religion, just not be an atheist.

The context of this thread has even addressed kids as scouts or cubs. It wasn't part of the story; nor part of my comments.

It was purely about a church's right to screen leadership amongst the adults. That's it.

The comment of yours that warrants re-reading was your comment at the end about a laser.

[Uri’el-2012]

Thanks for responding, but not only is Christ the end of the Law for righteousness, but Christians died with Him to the Law. Romans 7 covers this, among other places. I am “dead to the Law” as the Apostle Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. THANKFULLY!!!

NAsbU Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

You no longer need to keep all points of the Law
for a lifetime in order to saved.

However you should obey YHvH our creator and redeemer.

You may slip and fall as we are still sinners in suits of flesh.

Once you chose to accept Yah'shua, your sins
are covered by the Blood of the Passover Lamb.

Yah'shua was, is and will always be a Jew.

He will return to rule and reign the world
for a thousand years
from Jerusalem on the throne of King David,

In these End Times YHvH is having His Remnant
preach the Good News to all including
those who have been blinded by the Paganism of Nicea.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[mrreaganaut]

GENDER is what you are... SEX is what you DO!

NO, NO, NO!!!

The Modern Language Association encourages this grammatical atrocity for political reasons: "gender" is said to be "a political construct" used to support the "dominant sexual-political paradigm" and is therefore "up to the individual to affirm or deny."

This is the kind of thing that leads to girls trying to join the Boy Scouts, 'gay' teens trying to use the girls' gym, and "Transgender Studies" in academia.

PLEASE don't encourage these kind of people.

[Raider Sam]

You asked if I thought that being a member of any church guaranteed you a position. I said no, because there are other qualifications.

The laser comment was appropriate.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Yah’shua was, is and will always be a Jew.

Sure, because he will always have a human nature.

Somehow, though, just below the surface, it feels a lot like your post are meant to be contentious and condemn Christians who are not Jewish and never under the Law. Is there anything you want to plainly say in English?

Ampu

[Elsie]

So..

When faced with creating a form, on which there will be two selection boxes:

MALE
FEMALE

should the heading be...

SEX
or
GENDER??

[Monkey Face]

I agree, Nully! Maybe it needs more cow bell?
But see, the idea is to keep the word "MORMON" in the conversation, thus avoiding the true name: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's the only way they can "win arguments."
Just sayin'

[Godzilla]

But see, the idea is to keep the word "MORMON" in the conversation, thus avoiding the true name: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's the only way they can "win arguments."

Hey 'face - the OFFICIAL website for the above named organization contains which wording? In 1834, the name was "The Church of Latter-day Saints" (whoops, what's missing here). It wasn't until 1838 that it took its current name - 8 years AFTER it was alledgedly 'restored'. So it must not have been the 'true' church for the first 8 years of its existance eh?

[Monkey Face]

You’re asking me because I was there? (Spell check is your friend, BTW.)

[ejonesie22]

oops...

[reaganaut]

I'm afraid you have been mis-informed and misled.

You seem to think, or imply, that I take what others say at face value. I do not. When I left Mormonism, I spent YEARS studying Greek and Hebrew and the Scriptures. I don't take anyones word for anything. My theology is my own and it is biblical. My degrees and my studies have taught me well and I don't even trust my pastor without researching it and going back to the texts. You apparently are the one that is misinformed. I am grafted into the Body of Christ and gratefully so. You keep mentioning Romans 11 but apparently you neglect the rest of Romans and the New Testament. May God open your eyes has he has mine.

[Ripliancum]

That’s more up my alley, 4-6 milers. I did a half marathon once, and It about did me in, but besides the lung issue, I wasn’t ready for it.

Keep up the great work as a Scouter. Thanks for your efforts!

[reaganaut]

Sex, not gender.

Sex can be a verb but it is also a noun.