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To: Colofornian
Human communication with the dead, or necromancy, is never encouraged in the Bible and is always condemned (1 Samuel 15:23, 28:6ff).

The author misstates the meaning of necromancy. Here is how Merriam-Webster defines the term:

necromancy n 1 : the art or practice of conjuring up the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future 2 : MAGIC, SORCERY
Mormons do not practice necromancy. We do not "summon up" the dead for any purpose.

I have read a number of accounts about dead persons (usually relatives) appearing and communicating to living Latter-day Saints. Such appearances are extraordinary; they occur only as God permits them. I know of no case in which the living person conjured up the dead person.

Such encounters are never condoned by the Bible and as such, should be shunned rather than encouraged.

Tell that to Jesus, who spoke with two dead prophets, Moses and Elias, on the Mount of Transfiguration:

28 ¶ And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said. (Luke 9:28-33)

Not only did Jesus talk to two dead men, but they spoke of the future!

If the spirits of the dead came to Jesus, and He spoke with them, it cannot be wrong.

8 posted on 10/14/2010 7:15:55 AM PDT by Logophile
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To: Logophile; Texan Tory; Paragon Defender; greyfoxx39
Mormons do not practice necromancy. We do not "summon up" the dead for any purpose.

Here's the deal. A number of Mormon published books have emphasized manifestations of the supposed dead, without having any qualifications as to whether that spirit was actually the one belonging to thad dead person, or was a demonic spirit masquerading as a deceased relative.

I mean, come on Logo. Who has special "training" in this kind of discernment? And the New Testament says to "test the spirits." In the many Mormon accounts I've seen, did anybody "test these spirits" to rule out demonic activity. I haven't seen those precautions taken.

I'm speaking of:
* Mormon John Heinerman's book, Temple Manifestations.
* Mormon author Duane Crowther's book, Life Everlasting. (Bookcraft) Both have a lot of these manifestations all presented in a "positive" way.

I'm also speaking of the dozens of accounts re: Wilford Woodruff and the St. George temple. This account makes it into the Lds curricula wholly unqualified. Same with D&C 138 where dead relatives appear to Joseph F. Smith. This has even become Mormon "scripture" 50 years after it happened.

These accounts even make it into the syllabus of BYU courses...like Religious Education C261, Introduction to LDS Family History (Genealogy), where they speak of manifestations of supposed dead spirits.

While indeed most of these accounts don't initially involve Mormons initiating contact with these "spirits..." The reality seems to be that...
(1) By Mormon leaders sanctioning the dead appearing to their members as something "spiritual," they encourage such contact even if the examples they use are ones where the Mormons are on the receiving side.
(2) It's possible that Mormons, although not initiating contact the first time, perhaps have done so on ensuing occasions.

In Crowther's book, Life Everlasting (see footnote 41 of that book), he quotes Mitt Romney ancestor Parley P. Pratt as saying: "...we frequently hold communication with our departed father, mother, brother, sister, son or daughter; or with the former husband or wife of our bosom..."

When you look at Crowther's book, Life Everlasting, Crowther says on pp. 249-250 that these are "good spirits" who "return to earth and converse with Mormons." How does Crowther know that's the case across the board?

Crowther goes on to claim "seven reasons" for why these "spirits" communicate with Mormons:
1. give counsel
2. give comfort
3. obtain or give information
4. serve as guardian angels
5. prepare others for death
6. summon mortals into the spirit world
7. escort the dying through the veil of death
Source: Crowther, Life Everlasting, Bookcraft, 1988, pp. 249-250

According to John Ankerberg and John Weldon, "Such teaching is in complete harmony with the teachings of mediums and spiritists everywhere. Indeed, on these points it is impossible to distinguish Mormon practice from general spiritism." (The Facts on the Mormon Church by John Ankerberg, John Weldon,& Dillon Burroughs 1991/2009 Harvest House, p. 73)

27 posted on 10/14/2010 10:09:15 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Logophile

>> If the spirits of the dead came to Jesus, and He spoke with them, it cannot be wrong.<<

First off, Elijah never died.

Second, Moses died prior to Jesus death and resurrection. Everything changed after the resurrection. Jesus being truly God had powers and privileges that those of us who are only human do not.

Jesus also went down to Sheol after His death on the cross. Would you suggest that is also something available to us mere humans?


31 posted on 10/14/2010 10:36:00 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Logophile
If the spirits of the dead came to Jesus, and He spoke with them, it cannot be wrong.

Gee, Logo...don't mormons believe their Jesus MAY just kinda, sorta be a wee bit "speshul"? Like, maybe he had a few powers that set Him above the reg'lar run of the mill mormon elder?

Mormon leaders from Joseph Smith on down have claimed to be visited by various "dead people", the Founding Fathers coming to mind. Is that the concept then....what's good for Jesus cannot be wrong for just any old mortal man?

On further thought, the way Joseph Smith has been idolized would certainly lead to that perception.

"Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah..."

44 posted on 10/14/2010 1:21:52 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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