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To: topcat54

One of the characteristics of modern-day Preterism, is its bold assertion that the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation have all been fulfilled, with the exception of the last two chapters. Unfortunately, this belief facilitates a number of subtle heresies, including the denial of the physical resurrection of believers.

Let me explain. In Revelation 19, it is said that the marriage of the Lamb has come. All orthodox Christians agree that this is none other than Christ’s marriage to the church. But Paul equates this marriage to the glorification of believers. See Ephesians 5: 27. Moreover, he says: “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife: and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery. But I speak concerning Christ and the church” (Ephesians 5: 31-32).

Very well. Christ is now at seated at the right hand of the Father. According to the ecumenical creeds, He will not leave His Father until He returns to judge the quick and the dead. Then He will be joined unto His wife; and they two shall be “one flesh” — that is, they will be glorified together, via physical resurrection. See Philippians 3: 20-21.

For Preterists to say that the marriage occurred in A.D. 70, is to imply that either — 1): the physical resurrection of believers took place in the first century; 2): there was no physical resurrection, and that therefore the bride and Bridegroom did not become “one flesh;” which would mean that the marriage was never consummated; or 3): if they did become one flesh, apart from physical resurrection, then the physical resurrection of believers is not necessary.

Modern Preterists who affirm that the Apocalyptic prophecies have already been fulfilled, teach that the 7th trumpet has already sounded, therefore implying that the dead have already been judged (Rev. 11: 18). Paul corroborates the Apocalypse, saying that the resurrection of believers will happen at this “last trump” (1 Corinthians 15: 52). And since the last trumpet sounds at the close of the 42 months of Great Tribulation, it must be parallel to that resurrection mentioned in Daniel 12: 2.

But here’s the rub. Both Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry state that the resurrection of Daniel 12: 2 happened in A.D. 70. And both of them make it a spiritual (non physical) resurrection. So what they are really teaching, is that some entered into eternal life, and others into eternal contempt, without resurrection bodies! My only question: If that be the case, what theological necessity is there for the raising of dead bodies??


32 posted on 10/23/2010 5:20:37 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Let me explain. In Revelation 19, it is said that the marriage of the Lamb has come. All orthodox Christians agree that this is none other than Christ’s marriage to the church.

Is the Church the bride of Christ right now or not? Not the “espoused”, but the bride. The marriage happened when Christ rose from the dead and ascended to His Father in heaven to take His seat on the throne of David. All the “marriage” language in the didactic portions of the NT is in the presence tense, not future.

It is possible that what you view as “heresy” is simply trying to read the Bible with dispensationalist/futurist glasses. Preterism for you is just a convenient whipping boy. In truth, your issue is not just with preterists, but it is with all non- dispensationalist/futurist, that is most of Christ’s Church. I would encourage you to get a hold of a (non-futurist) commentary on Rev. 19 and see how most of the Church has historically interpreted that imagery. You analysis of what non- dispensationalist believe wrt Rev. 19 (or most of Revelation for that matter) seems flawed. Before charging someone with heresy, you need to do more careful work.

Modern Preterists who affirm that the Apocalyptic prophecies have already been fulfilled, teach that the 7th trumpet has already sounded, therefore implying that the dead have already been judged (Rev. 11: 18).

Since many futurists have their own problem with the trumpets, I’m not sure you want to bring that up. In any event, it is safe to say that matching similar events in different parts of Scripture is possible when warranted.

But here’s the rub. Both Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry state that the resurrection of Daniel 12: 2 happened in A.D. 70.

I would like to read the details of what you are claiming here. I’m admit I’m not familiar with how they would associate that verse with AD70.

Perhaps you have not noticed, but the language of Daniel 12:2 is not as straightforward as futurist might like to believe.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Note the use of the word “many”. If this were automatically to be taken as the final, general resurrection, we would expect to see the word “all”. How do you account for that?

I would encourage you to learn more about what orthodox preterists believe before trying to characterizing their teachings as heresy. And I would remind you once again that your issue is not just with orthodox preterists, but it is with all non- dispensationalist/futurist. For anyone who does not identify himself as a futurist is opposed to your interpretation of Revelation in many areas.

33 posted on 10/25/2010 10:18:21 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: CynicalBear

Friend,

Let me also make the point that just like historicism, or idealism, or futurism, preterism is not a perfect system. There are issues that have not been fully worked out. However, without a doubt, it is a far better system that the speculative nonsense that characterizes dispensational futurism. All one needs to do is turn on the TV and watch a few minutes of a “Christian” station to see kind of excesses in interpretation that futurism breeds. Any nut with a vivid imagination and a Scofield Bible can be a “prophecy scholar” in the futurist world.


34 posted on 10/25/2010 10:24:40 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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