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To: markomalley; OpusatFR; Salvation; kosta50; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg; stfassisi; maryz

The comment from +Ambrose is thoroughly Orthodox, that from Blessed Augustine thoroughly Western. Is the later the origin of the Latin notion that the priest (as opposed to a bishop) is Alter Christus or did it arise from the lack of an explicit epiklesis in the Latin Mass and/or the “Absolvo te” used in confession?

The Alter Christus idea is one that comes up all the time in discussions of reunion among Orthodox. It’s one more very important difference to be aware of and be ready to deal with in both particular churches.


3 posted on 10/08/2010 3:39:58 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; markomalley
the Latin notion that the priest (as opposed to a bishop) is Alter Christus

This is a question (or questions) rather than an answer. What is the Eastern view of the relationship between the priesthood and the episcopacy? I know precious little about the Western view, only a few scraps I learned in grammar school or high school (and never had any particular reason to pursue).

We did learn that the episcopacy is the "fullness" of the priesthood/Holy Orders. I'm constrained, however, to add "Whatever that means." Priests are ordained in Holy Orders; there's no further sacrament to make a bishop.

In the Western Church, at least in my experience, the bishop is the ordinary minister of Confirmation, but a priest can be "delegated" (if that's the word I want) to confer Confirmation. (I don't know whether it can happen that a priest can be delegated to consecrate a bishop.) But I have a dim memory from childhoold of hearing that the Eastern Church (some of it?) typically gives Baptism, the Eucharist and Confirmation to infants at the same time. Does the bishop do all this (assuming what I heard was correct)?

Just curious about the implications of all this.

4 posted on 10/08/2010 5:33:09 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Kolokotronis
The comment from +Ambrose is thoroughly Orthodox, that from Blessed Augustine thoroughly Western. Is the later the origin of the Latin notion that the priest (as opposed to a bishop) is Alter Christus

I am sure what I see that is objectionable about this:

He exhibits Himself as occupying a middle position when He says, He me, and I you. "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." By breathing on them He signified that the Holy Spirit was the Spirit, not of the Father alone, but likewise His own. "Who soever sins," He continues, "ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever ye retain, they are retained." The Church’s love, which is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, discharges the sins of all who are partakers with itself, but retains the sins of those who have no participation therein. Therefore it is, that after saying, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost," He straightway added this regarding the remission and retention of sins." [tr. Io. eu.]

Although it is Western...I'm not sure I see how this speaks to anything regarding the priest vs the bishop.

Can you go into why this is objectionable a little bit more?

15 posted on 10/08/2010 5:44:34 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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