Posted on 09/24/2010 11:20:38 PM PDT by bibletruth
Apostle Paul made a minister to the Gentiles for the grace of God, just as the Apostle Peter was made a minister to the circumcision.
I did not say Jews became Gentiles. I said the ten northern tribes of Israel were conquered and scattered, loosing their identity. Read the Book of Hosea, 1Kings 11,
2 Kings 17 and Ezk. 37.
A quote from you...”The House of Israel was scattered throughout all the nations, becoming Gentiles as the prophet Hosea said would happen.”
Yes, the House of Israel are not Jews. 1Kings 11, after Solomon died Reohboam his son, split the Kingdom in TWO. The House of Israel were the ten northern tribes and the House of Judah was Judah and Benjamin. Later God divorced the House of Israel but stayed in covenant with the House of Judah from which the Messiah would come. Jesus/Yahshua was a Jew from the tribe of Judah.
The Ten northern tribes were not JEWS!!!!! They were Hebrews, they were Israelites but they were not JEWS.
The ten northern tribes were later scattered into all the nations and became Gentiles. 2 Chronicles 5:26 Hosea 1-10.
(Jer 31:31 KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32 KJV) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(Jer 31:33 KJV) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
TWO SEPARATE HOUSES TWO SEPARATE PEOPLES TWO SEPARATE DESTINIES
Remember the House of Israel and the House of Judah are two epareate kingdoms.
(Hosea 1:3 KJV) So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
(Hosea 1:4 KJV) And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hosea 1:5 KJV) And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
(Hosea 1:6 KJV) And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
(Hosea 1:7 KJV) But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
(Hosea 1:8 KJV) Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
(Hosea 1:9 KJV) Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
(Hosea 1:10 KJV) Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
>>4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:<<
and I bet you, you think from Friday to Sunday is three days and three nights :)
I am going to grant all those who are confused that this information goes against everything we have been taught in traditional Christianity BUT if you are a seeker of Truth, come back to the Bible...leave man's doctrines behind and let the Lord show you what He is showing hundreds of thousands Believers today.
You might be interested in this thread as an example of a variation on British Israel-type beliefs.
That is correct, however, the people who lived in those two kingdoms encompassed the people commonly known today as the Jews (of all tribal ancestry, and none of the those living in the House of Israel became "Gentiles".
First God is saying he referring to his servant (Israel), saying he called on him in his (God's) righteousness, or better yet justice, and will guide Israel by the hand, at the same time guarding his people, and will institute his covenant through Israel, which (convenient) will be the light to the (Israelite) tribes or nations.
To suggest otherwise,i.e. Gentiles, is of course the concoction made up by the Christian authors later on. However, God made his covenant only with the Jewish people and not others (because others worshiped other gods).
Jesus himself admits he came only for the lost sheep of Israel and allows his disciples to only go to the lost sheep of Israel (i.e. non-Gentile, non-Samaritan).
Thank You. I stand corrected.I am reminded of a man I know who grew up believing he was Roman Catholic-but found out recently that his ancestors -while in Spain had converted to the Roman faith-and carried that to America where his grand parents and parents and ? I am not privy as to research he has done but short answer is he has since converted to Judaism
after a brief encounter of conversion from the Catholic of his birth to be ordained as an Assembly of God minister where he was led by a fellow Assembly of God minister to consider the
fact that our Christian Bible was originally written in Hebrew-and the difference in translation of the terms led him to Judaism.
Lest anyone think I have an agenda, I am not Jewish, by ancestry or otherwise. That said, it is really an eye-opener to read what the Jews have to say about their own Bible, and compare it to what the Christians say the Jewish Bible says! To put it in terms most will be able to relate to: it's like someone who has never lived in America telling Americans what America is like!
Jews are suckers for every type of spiritual hokum that comes along except Pauline Christianity (and Islam). This is precisely because they have a chance to see “what the Jews have to say about their own Bible, and compare it to what the Christians say the Jewish Bible says!” At this point Christianity becomes uninteresting and Jews move on to other kinds of hokum that at least don’t misrepresent the Jewish scriptures.
First of all, the first verse you cite refers to both the house of Israel, and the house of Judah, but only refers to ONE covenant. So, later when it talks about the covenant with the house of Israel, this is the same covenant made with the house of Judah.
Not to mention that, although there were two nations that came out of Israel, they all came from Israel (Jacob). So, the “house of Israel” can refer to only the tribes of the nation of Israel, or to all twelve tribes which descendended from the man called Israel.
You are correct that “goy/goyim” can be translated in different ways. However, even if translated as “nations” it does not mean that this refers to the tribes of Israel. Didn’t God use the same word when he prophecied the Messiah would judge the nations (Psalm 110:6)? Clearly that refers to nations which are His enemies, and not to the tribes of Israel.
The word needs to be read in context, and it seems clear from other prophecies, that although the Covenant was promised to Israel, that God would cause all nations to worship him. This is stated clearly in Jeremiah 3:17-18 :
“17 At that time they will call Jerusalem The Throne of the LORD, and all nations will gather in Jerusalem to honor the name of the LORD. No longer will they follow the stubbornness of their evil hearts. 18 In those days the house of Judah will join the house of Israel, and together they will come from a northern land to the land I gave your forefathers as an inheritance.”
So, in the future time when God regathers his people, he will also cause Jerusalem to be revered by all people, and all nations will gather there to worship God. Salvation is given first to God’s chosen, but not exclusively to God’s chosen. They are the firstfruits, but the firstfruits come only before a larger harvest.
Never said what I thought you were. But I did/do appreciate it when someone comes along who can remind me when I say somehtin’stupid.And give credible reason I ought believe them.
It's not just Pauline Christianity, it's the Gospels as well (and there is even a misleading suggestion that the Gospels were written for the Jews!). The Jews read what the Christians wrote and their hair stands up. It's like Christians reading Mormon theology—bogus! Just as no Christian would say things Mormons preach, neither would a Jew (including Jesus) say what the Christians said about Judaism.
Islam, of course is no different than the LDS cult, twice removed from anything even remotely Jewish.
There is a well-known rabbi who has a standing joke that relates how God invented Mormonism so Christians would know how it feels to be Jewish.
Uh, Psalm 110, is misunderstood or twisted, whichever way you wish to look at it, form the very beginning (110:1), but that's another thread! As for the use of goyim in this example, the KJV translates it as heathen, which is in the spirit of how the word is used in the oldest books of the Old Testament, namely those who did not worship God of Israel, including Israelites (see Gen 12:2 where Israel is referred to as a great nation or goy gado); the temrs itself had a number of meanings nut it was not made to mean exclusively non-Jews until Christians, especially Paul, made it to mean that.
The Messiah (the anointed one) in Judaism is a mortal human king, favored by God, who shall gather all the lost sheep of Israel and bring them back. The very end of the verse in Jeremiah speaks of the inheritance promised to the forefathers..." which clearly applies only to the Jews. Since the tribes were scattered, the same Jewish tribes/nations (remember we even refer to American Indian tribes as nations, i.e. the Apache nation, the Sioux nation, etc.) will be brought back "from the northern land" (House of Israel).
So, in the future time when God regathers his people, he will also cause Jerusalem to be revered by all people, and all nations will gather there to worship God. Salvation is given first to God’s chosen, but not exclusively to God’s chosen. They are the firstfruits, but the firstfruits come only before a larger harvest.
That is what the Christians believe but that was never what the Jews believed or taught. The Old Testament says that the God of Israel shall be known to all the people of the world through the might of the Jewish meshiyah (messiah) who will defeat Israel's enemies and reunite the Jewish people.
Te God of Israel has made a covenant with the non-Jewish people after the Flood. Thee are bound by the Noahide Laws but they have no other obligation in the World to Come. The Jews, on the other hand, as the priestly nation shall continue to worship and serve the God of Israel. A little investigation into the Jewish beliefs will show you that every Jewish male is a priest unto himself and obligated to observe the mitzvot along with prayers for himself and the family. The Gentiles have no such obligation.
It is a joke, but he couldn't be more spot on! Let them taste their own medicine! It is the exact equivalent: contorted interpretation, new theology and new "scripture."
The OT addresses the Gentiles through Noah. The non-Jewish people are simply to live their lives according to the Noahide Laws. That's where their involvement with the God of Israel ends. They have no other role or obligation as far as he is concerned.
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