Why The Kids in Your Assembly of God Youth Group May Not Really Be Saved

www.caffeinatedtheology.com ^ | September 18, 2010 | David Shedlock

[grassboots.org]

This is dedicated to my first Assembly of God youth pastor, Greg Black, who shared the true gospel with me almost 40 years ago.

Facebook's Evid3nc3 (E3[1]) is a bright and ambitious young man raised in an Assembly of God church whose aggressive and unrelenting efforts to reach his peers would be the envy of most any youth pastor. Except for one thing: he proselytizes not for his youth group or the Lord, but his most cherished belief: his atheism. The videos in his series have been watched over a hundred-thousand times, possibly by kids in your youth group. Updated and Corrected: Someone using his ID has labored at posting links to his videos on scores of various sites unrelated to atheism and he has developed a huge following among skeptics.

In the video below he talks about getting saved[2] during a Royal Rangers meeting, his service for the Lord, his experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in tongues), and his walk with God.

Introduction to YouTube Video: Why I am no longer a Christian.

A short but comprehensive look into my life as a Christian (which spanned 15 years) to prove to Christians that I was a genuine born-again, Holy Spirit baptised, and deeply committed Christian who had a strong relationship with Jesus Christ.

In a debate with a reformed Christian, E3 listed four signs to try and prove his conversion to Christ was "meaningful and touching":

-speaking in tongues

-speaking to Jesus

-feeling God’s presence

-feeling God’s guidance

Indeed, the expression of his personal testimony might lead typical youth leaders to believe the kid was indeed a real Christian no different from the young people in their own youth groups. But those...

[grassboots.org]

I hope at least a few of you might consider this worthy of putting a link to this on your Facebook page.

[righttackle44]

If he is presenting these points are evidence that he was once saved, then you are correct in your concerns.

[winodog]

I trust the Word Of God that is found in the Bible.
I meet too many people who bring emotions into the conversations and I dont trust emotions

[Augustinian monk]

n a debate with a reformed Christian, E3 listed four signs to try and prove his conversion to Christ was “meaningful and touching”:

-speaking in tongues

-speaking to Jesus

-feeling God’s presence

-feeling God’s guidance

me me me me.

I think the acid test of true conversion (being born from above) is a true love of truth and conforming to it. Too many so-called evangelical churches look down on churches that emphasize doctrine as being “cold, dead orthodoxy”. Holding fast to the truth is what churches are called to do. Not one time did Jesus rebuke the churches in the Revalation for not being evangelical enough or not growing. Truth and practice were the issues that he rebuked churches for.

[Augustinian monk]

see post 4. John the beloved says “any man who says he loves God and hates his brother is a liar”. He didn’t say you love God but because you sin you will die anyway. Lack of regeneration is the problem.

[huldah1776]

This won’t only apply to the AoG denomination. The college kids need this, too. Everything is so emo. :)

[Godzilla]

OK, so a loose cannon is running around, claiming an AG background, but the doctrine this guy is putting out is not AG doctrine. In fact, the title can easily read “Why the kids in your (insert church denomination/name here) Youth Group may not really be saved.

So why is this worth of linking to my facebook page?

[elk]

"Feel, feel, feel, and feel..."

Just a few observations:

1) From my personal observations, a "youth group" is often comprised of all sorts of kids, from Christian and non-Christian backgrounds; the Bible clearly states that "bad company corrupts good morals," and I noted that to be in the case of the AG Youth Group I observed.

2) Others have noted that age-segregated church activities were born out of industrialization-age efficiency model, but that doesn't quite help execute the Biblically mandated lifestyle issues, such as older women teaching the younger women -- can you practically accomplish this if ages are segretated out in church activities? Just asking.

Finally, has anyone noticed the American church becoming entertainment-obsessed, and more worldly than the world. While I'm not saying a Christian needs to step back 2 centures in dress and demeaner (and hey, if you want to do that, great, for for it), but do we have to embrace moral relativism and social justice?

Not picking on the AG alone, since all the major denominations are falling off the cliff of Biblical worldview.

[elk]

"Feel, feel, feel, and feel..."

Just a few observations:

1) From my personal observations, a "youth group" is often comprised of all sorts of kids, from Christian and non-Christian backgrounds; the Bible clearly states that "bad company corrupts good morals," and I noted that to be in the case of the AG Youth Group I observed.

2) Others have noted that age-segregated church activities were born out of industrialization-age efficiency model, but that doesn't quite help execute the Biblically mandated lifestyle issues, such as older women teaching the younger women -- can you practically accomplish this if ages are segretated out in church activities? Just asking.

Finally, has anyone noticed the American church becoming entertainment-obsessed, and more worldly than the world. While I'm not saying a Christian needs to step back 2 centures in dress and demeaner (and hey, if you want to do that, great, for for it), but do we have to embrace moral relativism and social justice?

Not picking on the AG alone, since all the major denominations are falling off the cliff of Biblical worldview.

[Godzilla]

n a debate with a reformed Christian, E3 listed four signs to try and prove his conversion to Christ was “meaningful and touching”:

I can safely say that this is not what AG teaches - this guy appears to be playing loosy-goosy with matters to promote atheism.

[Godzilla]

Not picking on the AG alone, since all the major denominations are falling off the cliff of Biblical worldview.

Elk - this guy is not accurately speaking what AG teaches and as such is misrepresenting the denomination.

[grassboots.org]

Right above the footnotes, I made it clear that this does apply to all who reject the true gospel and try to win youth by being more like the world.

[grassboots.org]

I agree. That would the lack of a miracle, being born again section.

[circlecity]

"I meet too many people who bring emotions into the conversations and I dont trust emotions"

"The human heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?"

[DryFly]

I think the graphic from the Four Spiritual Laws got it right:

[Lee N. Field]

, E3 listed four signs to try and prove his conversion to Christ was "meaningful and touching":

-speaking in tongues
-speaking to Jesus
-feeling God’s presence
-feeling God’s guidance

All rather disconnected from the humdrum but necessary means of attending to the preaching of the Word.

An example of what R. Scott Clark terms the Quest for Illegitimate Religious Experience, which is " "QIRE describes the desire to achieve an unmediated encounter with God" p74 "apart from ordinary means" p115".

[Lee N. Field]

I think the graphic from the Four Spiritual Laws got it right:

Faith is layered: notitia, assensus, fiducia. Knowledge (content), assent (it's true), fiducia (trust).

As always, "the Heidelberg" is pithy and clear: "True faith is not only a certain knowledge, whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in his word, but also an assured confidence, which the Holy Ghost works by the gospel in my heart; that not only to others, but to me also, remission of sin, everlasting righteousness and salvation, are freely given by God, merely of grace, only for the sake of Christ's merits. "

[ColdSteelTalon]

Holding fast to the truth is what churches are called to do. Not one time did Jesus rebuke the churches in the Revalation for not being evangelical enough or not growing. Truth and practice were the issues that he rebuked churches for.

You hit the nail right on the head truth (correct doctrine) is the most important tool the Christian can have... People focus on Church growth far too much, and always end up compromising doctrine so that people won't feel offended.

[LadyDoc]

uh, just because you are “saved” doesn’t mean you can’t backslide.

Believers come to a point when they need food, not spiritual milk.

And every believer hits a point where he is tempted or goes through a “dry” period. When this happens, we have to ask ourselves do we truly “love” God or do we just like that nice warm spiritual feeling that is how we perceive the grace of God as a beginning Christian?

Those who join Churches that stress the spirit grow quickly in love of God.

But one danger is that they don’t always teach people that we all have to accept Christ’s cross, when we can’t perceive God with our emotions. That’s when we learn to cling to him in faith.

[grassboots.org]

“uh, just because you are “saved” doesn’t mean you can’t backslide.”

My claim was not that people can’t backslide (another day, another time) but that it appears he may have never been saved, based upon his own testimony.