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Catholics in England suffered long repression
Google ^ | September 11, 2010 | ROBERT BARR

Posted on 09/14/2010 10:27:28 AM PDT by NYer

STONOR, England — For nearly three centuries after the Reformation, Catholics in England were outlaws.

But in the turmoil and persecution that followed the break between King Henry VIII and Rome, noble families such as the Stonors clung to their faith, "in spite of dungeon, fire and sword," as the Victorian hymn "Faith of our Fathers" put it.

"We're just stubborn, really," says Ralph Thomas Campion Stonor, the seventh Lord Camoys, a title bestowed on an ancestor for valor in the Battle of Agincourt in 1415.

Pope Benedict XVI will recall the years of persecution during his upcoming tour of Britain Sept. 16-19. He will visit Westminster Hall, the medieval chamber within the Houses of Parliament where the Catholic Thomas More was tried and convicted of treason in 1535. More refused to swear an oath accepting the annulment of King Henry's marriage, thus becoming one of the first of the legion of English Catholic martyrs.

The Stonor family's history mirrors the vicissitudes of Catholics, both noble and humble, who defied the law and risked death to preserve their faith through times of persecution until they regained full legal rights in the 19th century.

The Stonors were among those described as respectable "recusants," people who refused to attend Church of England services; respectable because they did not join in any plots to overthrow the monarchy.

It was possible, even in the turbulent times of Queen Elizabeth I, to be openly Catholic and still enjoy royal favor. A notable case was the composer William Byrd, who wrote music for the Chapel Royal and for the Catholic Mass.

The Stonor family sheltered another famous martyr, the Jesuit priest Edmund Campion. Campion's printing press was discovered at the Stonor house after Campion was arrested in 1581.

(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: freformed; guyfawkes; reformation; uk

Lord Camoys in the 14th century chapel next to his country home in Stonor, England.
1 posted on 09/14/2010 10:27:29 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

Plenty of blame to go around regarding that sordid mess.


2 posted on 09/14/2010 10:30:00 AM PDT by Genoa (Titus 2:13)
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
Camoys, an investment banker, in 1998 became the first Catholic since the Reformation to be appointed Lord Chamberlain, a senior royal official, and he is a financial adviser to the Vatican. The family chapel, still open under a license granted by King Edward III in 1349, is a touchstone of his faith, he says.


Lord Camoys is standing in the roof of his home that was used as the 'Priest Hole', where Catholic priests would hide during the English Reformation during witch hunts by the Protestant authorities.

3 posted on 09/14/2010 10:30:34 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer

Joseph Pearce has written two very good books about the Catholicism of Shakespeare’s family and of the Bard himself.


4 posted on 09/14/2010 10:34:42 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: NYer

Wonderful. I’m working on a book on some of the less ‘respectable’ nobles. :)

Glad to see this fine article.


5 posted on 09/14/2010 10:39:09 AM PDT by BenKenobi (“this country will be less conservative with Castle voting 55% with the GOP")
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To: NYer

Christians and catholics need to stand up for their faith and religion now more than ever before.


6 posted on 09/14/2010 10:42:37 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: NYer
Elizabeth and her successors allowed certain noble Catholic families to live and practice the Faith because they needed them as ambassadors and intermediaries between Catholic kingdoms and republics on the Continent and as back-channel communicators with the Vatican.

If these nobles did not "know their role" they would be taught a painful lesson and be made an example of.

7 posted on 09/14/2010 11:08:15 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Ev Reeman

My protestant ancestors were run out of Germany by the Catholics, and were just some of the thousands of Pennsylvania Dutch in America.

That was then. You ae right. Catholics and Christians and all faiths need to unite agains the anti-religious nuts who are trying to criminalize faith in America today.


8 posted on 09/14/2010 11:37:22 AM PDT by passionfruit (When illegals become legal, even they won't do the work Americans won't do)
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To: passionfruit
Some of my ancestors were run out of France by the Catholics. Horrible crimes were committed by both sides, because what was at stake (so to speak) was the coveted position of govt-established church, including all kinds of perks, power, and wealth--things which attract people not really interested in the Gospel at all. That's why our Founding Fathers made sure that the Constitution forbade any law establishing a national religion.

Incidentally, Islam, one of the great common enemies of both Catholics and Protestants, is by nature an established religion, because it makes no distinction between church and state.

9 posted on 09/14/2010 12:06:52 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: Mercat

It´s really amazing what Shakespeare was able to get away with. He seems to have really liked walking that tightrope.


10 posted on 09/14/2010 1:04:04 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: passionfruit; Ev Reeman

We Americans should remember what George Washington told us: stay out of Europe’s mess. (Paraphrased ;-). All kinds of people did bad things to each other in the past. Fine ... means nothing to me, except a reminder that all of us are sinners.


11 posted on 09/14/2010 2:10:53 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("A litte plain food, and a philosophic temperament, are the only necessities of life."~W. Churchill)
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To: wideawake
And they left William Byrd and Thomas Tallis alone because their music was just so achingly beautiful, they couldn't bear to persecute them even though they were openly Catholic.

Shows that Elizabeth had a heart, somewhere.

Byrd, "Ave Verum Corpus"

Tallis, "O Sacrum Convivium"

12 posted on 09/14/2010 6:29:28 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
I wouldn't say they were openly Catholic. It was known at court where their sympathies lay, but Tallis never made any public show, and Byrd didn't compose unambiguously Catholic music until after he became persona non grata at court.

As far as Elizabeth having a heart, she had her own sister murdered. But Byrd and Tallis were no threat - and she had impeccable taste.

13 posted on 09/14/2010 6:43:57 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: NYer


St. Ninian's Church, Tynet

St. Ninian's Church, Tynet is an historic Roman Catholic church clandestine church located at Tynet about 4 miles to the west of Buckie, Scotland in the Enzie region. Erected in 1755, it is the oldest surviving Roman Catholic church built in Scotland after the Reformation.

Architecture
St. Ninian's looks like a long, low barn or like a row of simple cottages because it was a clandestine church designed to look anonymous at a time when Catholic worship was tolerated in Britain and many other Protestant lands on the condition that worship take place in out-of-the way churches so as not to offend Protestant sensibilities. St. Ninian's is a superbly preserved example of a clandestine church.

The church has a simple whitewashed interior with a foyer and a single large room. A reused doorway with Corinthian columns leads from the foyer and baptistry to the church proper. The simple wooden pews and confessional are painted grey. A simple octagonal pulpit with a sounding board dates to 1787.

History
St Ninian's replaced a church located in St Ninian's burial ground, Chapelford, that was destroyed by soldiers in 1728. Before the construction of St. Ninian's, services were held on an occasional basis, often at night in barns conducted by priests who traveled disguised as ordinary farmers.

At the time the church was constructed, the building was an extremely modest private house owned by a "poor woman." Although the existence of a Catholic congregation and the fact that they intended to construct a space in which to conduct communal worship was not a secret, in keeping with the conditions under which Catholic worship was tolerated in Scotland, Father Godsman purchased the house, on land owned by the Gordan family, and announced that he was "making an additione (sic) as a cot for his sheep." In its original form, the building was thatched and the windows were not glazed. Glass windows and a slate roof were added by Father George Matheson in 1779, as conditions eased for Catholicism in Scotland. Father Matheson also added a ball finial on the building's west gable. The building was restored in 1951.

St. Ninian's is still a consecrated church, although it was supplanted as the leading church in the parish by St. Gregory's Church, Preshome in 1788. The church is protected as a category A listed building

Source (there are footnotes and links at source)


14 posted on 09/14/2010 6:47:57 PM PDT by annalex
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To: wideawake
She murdered Mary Tudor? That's a new one to me.

Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots, was Elizabeth's 1st cousin once removed, not her sister.

On the other hand, it's fairly likely that Mary Stuart had her second husband, Lord Darnley, murdered.

15 posted on 09/14/2010 6:53:25 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: wideawake
Byrd was briefly suspended from the Chapel Royal (but restored). He was on the recusant list from fairly early in Elizabeth's reign. But he never lost his publishing monopoly despite being quite "out there" in his Catholic activities from the 1570s on. I think he was actually granted royal permission to practice Catholicism at some point.

Tallis was older (he was Byrd's teacher at one point) so he wasn't on the cusp of the really serious persecutions. He was in his 80s by the time things got really bad, but much earlier he composed for Edward, who was no fan of Catholicism.

16 posted on 09/14/2010 7:01:48 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: wideawake
As far as Elizabeth having a heart, she had her own sister murdered.

Cousin (Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots), not sister (Mary Tudor, Queen of England).

17 posted on 09/15/2010 6:01:50 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion; AnAmericanMother

I stand corrected.


18 posted on 09/15/2010 7:06:24 AM PDT by wideawake
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