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To: dartuser; annalex
That is not the issue. The Rev 12 passage says she cried out from her birth pangs ... that implies she was suffering from the Genesis curse during childbirth.

Not necessarily. It could be symbolic of the sufferings the Holy Family had in the early years of Jesus's life, flight into Egypt and all.

If she was sinless, how could she be cursed with this? ... especially if she was spared physical death (another Genesis curse for sin) by being assumed into heaven.

The Catholic Church doesn't explicitly teach whether or not she died at the end of her earthly life. That is a debate that has merits on both sides. Personally, I think she died, as why should she be spared from what her Son suffered? Also, there's the liturgical tradition of the Dormition of the Theotokos in the East.

27 posted on 09/08/2010 7:35:21 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480
Not necessarily. It could be symbolic of the sufferings the Holy Family had in the early years of Jesus's life, flight into Egypt and all.

While I find that explanation unsatisfying ... my point was to understand how Catholics think about this; and that seems to be producing some fruit. Thanks.

28 posted on 09/08/2010 7:42:02 AM PDT by dartuser ("Palin 2012 ... nothing else will do.")
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To: Pyro7480
The Catholic Church doesn't explicitly teach whether or not she died at the end of her earthly life.

Do I misunderstand the assumption? I thought it was bodily ascension prior to death.

30 posted on 09/08/2010 7:44:17 AM PDT by dartuser ("Palin 2012 ... nothing else will do.")
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To: Pyro7480; dartuser
Yes on both points, Pyro.

The mistake here is to think that the Church teaches that death and labor pain are punishment for individual sin, sort of like Hell is punishment for individual sin. Death and labor pain are consequences of the sin of Adam, but not of our actual sins.

Moreover the Church teaches that suffering advances our salvation and salvation of others; far from being a punishment, it is a blessing:

the sufferings of Christ abound in us (2 Cor. 1:5)

[I, St. Paul] rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church (Col. 1:24).


44 posted on 09/08/2010 5:33:20 PM PDT by annalex
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