[wideawake]

Correct. The question is: how is there any universe? and not: how did the universe come to take its current shape?

More succinctly and even less eloquently: how is there not nothing?

Assume that the physical universe is self-organizing for argument's sake - that still doesn't mean that it is self-generating.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Correct. The question is: how is there any universe? and not: how did the universe come to take its current shape?

More succinctly and even less eloquently: how is there not nothing?

Assume that the physical universe is self-organizing for argument's sake - that still doesn't mean that it is self-generating.

So then, as I understand it, scientists have never at any time claimed to tell us why anything exists at all, but only how it took its current shape. Most disappointing. This isn't cosmogony at all. Do they not understand our frustration with them?

I think their response to our "where did the raw material come from?" is to answer back "where did G-d come from?", but G-d is not raw material, or even physical.

Why don't they just admit that they believe that physicality is eternal and non-created? Who gives a flip how it took its current shape?