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To: Legatus
Catechism? Is this an "official" documented, referenced list?

I think I'm beginning to understand the problem here. The list I provided is from Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma". He went through all the documents of the Church and extracted specific propositions and tagged them according to the degree of authority behind the statement. For instance some are "de fide" meaning they have been solemnly defined by ecumenical councils or the popes. Some are listed because they arise by necessity from a solemnly defined dogma and others are somewhat undefined, still others are "merely" pious beliefs. I believe there are about 800 in all divided into six or seven degrees of certitude. Each of those 800 items has a paragraph or page explaining its origin, usually a citation from the defining document.

I think my point is that the "Faith" isn't a checklist. There is no Catholic shopping list saying "a dozen eggs, a pound of butter, six lemons, a hamster" because it's supposed to be lived. Guess what? I agree with your logic and I agree that there are many "teachings" which do not require the "Infallible" label.

The major problem is this argument is not accepted when proposed by a non-Catholic.

Quoting a Papal Bull, quoting a Papal Encyclical, quoting a well favored Church Father, quoting a Catholic Publication, and on and on is always ridiculed as "not Catholic Teaching" if the "quote" contradicts the opinion of the Catholic "apologetic" of the moment.

632 posted on 08/30/2010 2:08:21 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: OLD REGGIE
The major problem is this argument is not accepted when proposed by a non-Catholic.

Quoting a Papal Bull, quoting a Papal Encyclical, quoting a well favored Church Father, quoting a Catholic Publication, and on and on is always ridiculed as "not Catholic Teaching" if the "quote" contradicts the opinion of the Catholic "apologetic" of the moment.

INDEED
TO THE MAX!

However, when duplicity, weasel worded daffynitionaries and the like are a major aspect of the dogma, beliefs and practices of such a !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! of man bound INSTITUTION, what can we expect?

634 posted on 08/30/2010 2:20:03 PM PDT by Quix (C THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: OLD REGGIE
The major problem is this argument is not accepted when proposed by a non-Catholic.

I appreciate the problem. There are probably multiple causes but I can readily identify two:
1. Particularly in the area of EENS (outside the Church everyone is doomed) we Catholics are practically schizophrenic. You'll see it mainly with converts (like me) and with Catholics who are heavily influenced by professional convert apologists. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of my parents going to hell so I'll commit all sorts of theological gymnastics to come up with a way for the dogma to not mean what it looks like it means. You'll notice it with the hierarchy in the area of inter-religious dialog, they just can't wrap their heads around the idea that all these nice pagans are going to hell.
2. Have you ever talked to a European about life in these United States? If you have, replace European with Protestant and United States with Catholic Church and you'll understand what I'm saying perfectly. If you haven't... it's kind of difficult to explain so I'll just hope you have. :)

635 posted on 08/30/2010 2:37:44 PM PDT by Legatus
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