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To: D-fendr
Man is neutral in your view and God owes him a chance?

If you love someone, would you give them a chance to get well, even if they didn't deserve it?

Your view of GOD is to low and view of Man is to high.

Fallen, humanity is running away from God and God's enemy.

Rom 3:11 NO ONE understands; NO ONE SEEKS for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; NO ONE does good, not even one." The Gospel of Grace is to be proclaimed to the WHOLE world. God removes the blinders for the ELECT and GIVES them FAITH to BELIEVE. The rest of humanity is still culpable for their sin, brought upon them by Adams curse and their own sin.

God chooses to save some and allow the rest to what they deserve.

The wounded deserve to die?

They are not wounded. They are dead in trespasses and sin. We were God's enemies, running away from Him as fast as we could. God HAD to arrest us.

We ALL deserve eternal punishment, BUT GOD in His Mercy chooses to Save some.

Rom 9:14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

5,935 posted on 09/18/2010 8:19:53 AM PDT by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee; maryz; HarleyD
I, and others have covered Romans 9 several times in previous posts - it is not about individual election nor double predestination.

Your view of GOD is to low and view of Man is to high.

With the "All God or All Man" false dichotomy we always get it wrong, for we must eliminate one or the other in choosing. In your view, man is eliminated. If I seek to put him back into reality, you will always see this as too high - because you have to eliminate him entirely.

And since I also don't choose "All God" you will always see "God and Man" as reducing God.

God is omnipotent; He created man with free will.

NO ONE understands; NO ONE SEEKS for God.

God seeks us. Our response is to His grace; whether we believe. This covers the elect and non. Our difference is you say God creates some such that they cannot possibly respond, and that God "passes them by."

They are not wounded. They are dead in trespasses and sin.

Again, all instance of "dead" do not mean dead forever. If it did there would be no "alive in Christ" possible. My use of wounded includes being "dead in sin" and all of that, but it does not mean we are born forever dead to Christ.

Our difference again is not that man can "recover" or get well or be reborn. Our difference is double predestination. So post all you wish about that, if it applies in double predestination, it applies without it it. The difference is whether God creates or designs dead forever folks, and programs both such that there is no free will.

Fallen, humanity is running away from God and God's enemy… We were God's enemies

Your view of God is too small here. His love is perfect.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
The god of double predestination falls short of what Christ says of His Father and what He asks of us.
6,085 posted on 09/18/2010 4:51:07 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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