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To: D-fendr
So you do not see man inheriting a fallen nature from Adam?

Sick or wounded, not dead.

So you would say that after the fall, man has a propensity to sin, but still retains a weakend ability to choose God?

AND you would say that these verses are an overstatement.

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written:
"None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." 13 "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." 14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16in their paths are ruin and misery, 17and the way of peace they have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

5,932 posted on 09/18/2010 7:24:57 AM PDT by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee; maryz; HarleyD
AND you would say that these verses are an overstatement.

There should be a question mark after that. No, I don't. As one who managed to spend most of life making the most sick choices possible, I know they are not exaggerations.

The comparision is whether God creates us dead or sick - whether, according to double predestination, some are created dead forever. Or whether, even as sick, dead, perverted man becomes, he is not that way forever - for there is grace and a loving God.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

We cannot take every instance of "dead" to prove double predestination. All of this kind of stuff describes just how sick we can be. Often it shows how, sick as we may be, God still loves us, still is there to make us well - whole, as only He can.

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved.

6,075 posted on 09/18/2010 4:08:48 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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