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To: D-fendr
This is against Pelagius and not a statement of double predestination. In Our fallen nature we will never choose God. I agree, but we disagree about man and God. Cats and Dogs are free to fly, however their nature does not allow them to. So we would not condemn them for not flying. Neither would we condemn them or praise them for licking themselves - they cannot do otherwise. A God who creates cats who can only lick and condemns them for would be unjust and cruel. A God who creates a human being who cannot believe and then condemns him for it would be the same.

So you do not see man inheriting a fallen nature from Adam?

Man is neutral in your view and God owes him a chance?

God chooses to save some and allow the rest to what they deserve.

If you want pure justice then ALL deserve hell.

Sounds like you are a semi pelagian. Man has been wounded but with help can choose correctly.

5,874 posted on 09/17/2010 2:51:15 PM PDT by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee; HarleyD
So you do not see man inheriting a fallen nature from Adam?

Sick or wounded, not dead.

Man is neutral in your view and God owes him a chance?

If you love someone, would you give them a chance to get well, even if they didn't deserve it?

God chooses to save some and allow the rest to what they deserve.

The wounded deserve to die?

If you want pure justice then ALL deserve hell.

A just god would mean all go to hell or all go to heaven - this is the false choice a dilemma of double predestination. An injust god is not a satisfactory solution to it.

Neither is universal salvation. When you have formed a either/or for which both conclusion are wrong, it's a good indication that your formation is in error.

Sounds like you are a semi pelagian. Man has been wounded but with help can choose correctly.

Is believing a work?

Again, your theology presents a false choice. "Either All God or All Man" necessarily means that whichever way you choose, you eliminate the other. If you choose All God, you cannot hold Man accountable for anything - and you do not have Man but a programmed creature you mistakenly call man.

With free will you have relationship. You have the possibility of love. You have reality: God and Man and His love and grace and our response, choices and consequences.

5,876 posted on 09/17/2010 3:22:18 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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