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To: Mad Dawg
If reasoning can justify it, then it is justified, which is to say okay. So yeah, that makes it okay, almost by definition. It arises from devotion, it exercises the mind and requires thought about our Lord's work of Salvation. It sounds terrific to me, in fact.

Oh my. I couldn't disagree more. Human reason has it's place, no doubt, but that place is not in trying to discern the things of YHWH.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

(e-Sword: KJV)

To wit: It is precisely the "reason" of mortal men that is our downfall - Solomon, no doubt the wisest man ever, surely "reasoned" his way into placing foreign idols in the Temple of the Most High. No doubt it was done for the same political purposes which would drive such an act today (like supporting the division of the land of Israel).

The folly of Man's reason knows no bounds.

1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

525 posted on 08/30/2010 3:41:43 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: roamer_1
To wit: It is precisely the "reason" of mortal men that is our downfall ...

This is one of the most important differences in theological outlook possible. It's not a new thought to me, but it is good to have it so clearly stated.

Stating it so, though, is a conversation stopper. What is left to us if reason is bad? Mantic poetry or bootless yelling seem the only options have.

We would say that like everything truly human, reason is good, for "God saw everything that He had made and, behold, it was very good."

However, we are fallen. So our reason is weak and subject to being ignored, led astray, or misused.

In the case of Solomon, he may have "rationalized" his idolatry, but that is a misuse of reason. Specifically, he ignored revelation and its authority. Revelation is a grace and it is a gift to acknowledge its authority. But once those gifts are given, reason directs that revelation be followed.

So, for us, the folly of man's wisdom is (or at least includes) relying on reason alone.

And, again, from our point of view, your post is logically inconsistent. You lay out some principles (Scriptural texts) and an example (Solomon) and then argue to a conclusion. But the conclusion at least appears to discredit the method by which it was reached.

526 posted on 08/30/2010 4:08:15 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: roamer_1

I thoroughly agree.

Folks seem to then bounce to the absurdity that you are tossing reason out as totally useless, which I don’t see you doing.

God is both reasonable and beyond reason . . . which is DIFFERENT from being UNreasonable.


542 posted on 08/30/2010 7:38:50 AM PDT by Quix (C THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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