Jesus was known to be very vocal and outrageous in some of his approaches. Kicking over a few tables was only one example.
However, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone on this thread is Christ. Given that when Jesus had outbursts of the kind, he accompanied them with words of wisdom that were the actual point. In other words, the outbursts were like a headline, meant to get attention so people were paying attention when the message was relayed. It was a time honored tactic of the prophets.
I don’t see any of the people I’m referring to as prophets.
What I see is the usual “I hate Catholic” school girl jump rope rhymes being plastered on any thread that is related to Catholicism but doesn’t have the word “CAUCUS” in the title. That doesn’t seem like prophetic speech to me.
I see a lot of “protestants are better than Catholics because...” thrown out. Most of the time it’s opinionated bunk, and nine out of ten times the examples are ones that I can dimiss via anecdotal evidence. That means that I have experienced exactly what those protestants are claiming does not happen, or have seen a lack of what many claim is always true.
I saw one person say that protestants don’t “curse to hell Roman Catholics.” I was told multiple times that I was going to hell by members of my former church (Methodist) after they heard I went to Catholic Mass with a girlfriend. I didn’t even JOIN the RCC.
I see “I hate Catholics because Priests do the naughty with boys.” Those who hold onto this argument ignore the good work of the many, many other members of the clergy, most of whom were appalled by the abuses in question. They also ignore that a vast majority of Catholics (Roman and otherwise) are in absolute opposition to such abuses.
I see a LOT of disrespect and insults slung at Mary, Mother of Christ. Regardless of whether one is protestant or Catholic, how can a Christian be so disrespectful to the woman who willingly took on the task of carrying, birthing and raising Christ? Regardless of whether one believes it is appropriate to give her honor or venerate her, or believes it is inappropriate to the max, how can a Christian justify such disrespect?
I’ve seen “Catholics are evil because of the Vatican and Holy See.” I can’t even begin to understand how that seems like a good argument.
Even your use of terms like “Catholic Daffynition” and other such demeaning phrases serve to degrade the quality of dialogue between protestants and Catholics. It is the equivalent of a liberal calling Fox News “Fox Spews.” I have a hard time taking seriously someone who resorts to such tactics. I get that you disagree, but would appreciate less of the disrespect.
I could go on and on about all the anti-Catholic rhetoric that frustrates me, but I don’t feel it is necessary. I think my point is clear that if the idea is to convince those who are not Roman Catholic that the RCC is some kind of evil empire bent on “Catholic Dictatorship” or other such conspiracy theories, this kind of behavior is as damaging as it is convincing. By no means am I saying that Catholics, Roman or otherwise, are free of guilt in such behavior. I know it happens, I have seen it happen, and I am equally critical in those cases.
But really, if your defense of the behavior is to point to Christ I think perhaps you should consider the content of the messages attached to the behavior. Failing an understanding of my point there, let’s look at the difference between people who lived 2000 years ago and people who live now. Supposedly we are more educated, more conversant and more capable of engaging in mature discourse over such topics. We certainly have advanced language a great deal, technological advances have increased the reach of our messages, and when we sit down on a forum the intent is to READ and DISCUSS. Christ was attempting to reach people who were not as rhetorically (the ability to use language effectively) advanced, and who were part of a culture that had not developed in such a away as to be reliant on discourse for advancement. Consider the audience when selecting the means of expression.
@Quix specifically: ALL THAT SAID, I have never read your multiple font/typeface/color message that you post over and over and over on these threads. I don’t read it because of the choice to use html tags to make your text look like a clown got into a fight with a paintbrush and lost. I don’t read ANY posts like that, as it’s annoying. However, I would LIKE to read it at some point, partially out of a desire to show enough respect to your views and partially out of my natural tendency to want as much information as possible. If you ever feel like it, please put the message(s) in plain, readable text and post them or FReepmail me. I will read them, and if you provide them in such a manner I will refrain from picking them apart because you have shown me enough respect to honor this request. Of course, if I ever see them on a thread and they’re in the normal presentation then I may respond, but will try to do so cordially.
Wow, what a long post. I doubt anyone got this far. I probably wouldn’t have. I’ll save the rest of my commentary for another time (maybe 3 posts from now). Whatever your denomination, people, know that if you believe in Christ as our Savior and do your damnedest to follow His teachings and accept him as Savior, we’re good in my book. Huh, maybe that’s why I’m so unpopular? ;-)
;-)
Nice post.
Perhaps you'd like to post some examples of the insults slung at Mary by non Catholics...
LOL.
Thanks for the bother of your long post . . . I think . . . .
LOL.
Here’s the post . . . help yourself. Will respond to your post otherwise in a bit . . .
I *ENJOY* color . . . I have PERSONAL FUN with color . . . life, to me, has MORE THAN SUFFICIENT deadness, drabness, deadliness in our era . . . I don’t like black at all. Yet, gray to me is worse—non-committal.
I have learned, over the years, that color can be better against a background of darker or drabber color. Nevertheless, I still prefer dark Navy blue to black and even drab brown/tan to gray. Hereon, y’all provide plenty of non-color for contrast. LOL.
You are WELCOME TO MOCK my use of color as much as tickles your fancy.
Here’s one of the requested post examples in black and white:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
THE FOLLOWING INSTITUTIONAL HORRORS MAKE OUTRAGEOUS BLASPHEMOUS FUN OF ALMIGHTY GOD:
And who
“exalts alternate deities”?
.
.
UNCOUNTED
MILLIONS OF
ROMAN CATHOLICS
.
ALL OVER THE WORLD
.
AT THE ENCOURAGEMENT
AND
FACILITATION OF
THE VATICAN
.
REGARDLESS
.
of
all the weasel words
documents
&
rationalizations
to the contrary.
.
Trumped-up
plausible deniability
DOESN’T WASH
WITH GOD ALMIGHTY.
...
SELF-JUSTIFICATION
DOESN’T WASH WITH GOD ALMIGHTY!
.
RITUAL DOESN’T CUT IT
WITH GOD ALMIGHTY!
.
EXCUSES
DON’T CUT IT
WITH GOD ALMIGHTY
.
.
.
In some countries,
it is a reasonable guess
that of the 20-30% practicing Roman Catholics,
the percentage who
EXALT ALTERNATE DEITIES
would be 85-95% or more.
In other countries, it might be
as low as 15-50%
Sometimes, on FR, it appears to be
90%. Other times, 70%
Sometimes, maybe as low as 30-50%.
.
.
.
Below are a list of brazen examples
from a very popular devotional
VERY SANCTIONED, APPROVED AND ENCOURAGED
by the Vatican system & hierarchy.
.
.
.
Some have said that the language below
is ‘merely’ hyperbolic adoration.
I don’t think that’s what
GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD LABEL IT.
I’m convinced that
GOD ALMIGHTY
CALLS IT
BRAZEN DEMONICALLY
FACILITATED, ENCOURAGED & LED
IDOLATRY AND BLASPHEMY.
He doesn’t usually mince words.
.
.
.
WERE MARY HERSELF POSTING ON FR
I BELIEVE HER DENOUNCIATIONS OF SUCH
WOULD BE MUCH MORE FIERCE THAN MINE!
.
.
.
I was involved in a house church
famous all over Southern California
for its deliverance ministry and follow-up.
Mental hospitals and pastors sent their worst cases
to us—the ones they gave up on.
By God’s grace, Christ’s Blood and Holy Spirit
operating in servant-hearted love through
a lot of dedicated people who opened their homes
to such folks,
many were set free—lastingly free.
.
.
.
I learned a lot in that church.
One of the things that I OBSERVED,
I see a LOT hereon.
there’s a characteristic
TYPE OF RESPONSE
WHEN A PERSON AWASH
IN DEMONIC INFLUENCES
(I don’t think it matters
whether they are resident
or hovering around)
GETS CHALLENGED, EXHORTED,
HAS THEIR PRIDE PRICKED.
I see a LOT of that TYPE of response, hereon.
.
.
.
Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn’t change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn’t change the facts.
.
.
.
the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat’s.
.
.
.
Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
—ALL HINT OF SUCH—
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.
ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.
Here’s the title:
And it carries the official sanctions of:
ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.
WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR
Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .
Here they are:
However, as we’ve seen through a variety of sources—a pile of them in Ferraro’s manual about the Rosary—the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC’s hereon to the contrary.
p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .
p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.
5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.
6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.
“Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary’s help, quickly slide toward hell.” —Richard of St Victor
p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! —Partial Indulgence
p41
“Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast.” —Prov. 3:18
p43
1 - “Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!”
p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, ‘that she might vanquish sin in every respect.’
.
[Qx: I guess Christ’s vanquishing sin was unnecessary—or ineffectual without Mary’s assistance?]
p46
7 - “Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue.”
.
[Qx: I guess Christ’s conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]
9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. ‘No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.’
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a ‘Walter Mitty’ role as spouse of Mary? That’s SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT’S role to draw men to God!]
p47
4 - “Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.’
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]
5 - “She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought.”
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]
p47
10 - “As Noah’s Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care.”
p50
8 - “If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?”
p50
4 - “By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God.”
BTW, THANKS for yet another opportunity to inform the lurkers.
250 posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:37:19 AM by Quix
FEEL FREE to pick apart whatever post I post.
I like vigorous dialouge, most of the time.
I think the allegations about our language, era, culture, nuances etc. are more advanced from 2000 years ago is utter nonsense. Just because we have the largest vocabulary in recorded history is not necessarily a mark of refinement.
The Greeks, Romans and Hebrews had plenty robustness in their languages to express a very full range of nuance and refinement.
People are people. David, Solomon, Christ, Paul, Gamalial et al did not lack for subtlety, nuance nor refinement.
I do consider the audience when selecting my means of expression.
I know from LOTS of personal as well as 100’s of hours of interventionist, group therapy, workshops, teaching, & counseling sessions the range of personalities and dynamics that respond—however delayed—to starkly startling, vividly memorable words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs.
How DARE I ROB folks of such an opportunity to FINALLY have their consciousness, understanding, hearts, minds, spirits GRABBED BY THE THROAT by some vivid, memorable, haunting turn of phrase sufficiently to FINALLY wake-up?
There’s plenty of soft, gentle, winsome, rabbit fur coated pontifications hereon. That’s not per se my brief to write only in those ways.
VATICAN DAFFYNITION and other such terms are usually born out of extreme frustration at being able to
DESCRIBE AT ALL MEANINGFULLY WHAT PRODDYS SEE DEMONSTRATED HEREON RELENTLESSLY.
I don’t have a better term for the slippery, weasel word laden, double standard flaunted, duplicitous drivel straight from the ALICE IN WONDERLAND SCHOOL OF THEOLOGY AND REALITY MANGLING that RC’s fling about with such relentless abandon hereon—with such straight, long-faced haughtiness.
If y’all don’t like being called on such duplicity and double standard laden pontifications—KNOCK IT OFF!
If y’all don’t like being called on such slippery daffynitions—QUIT USING THEM!
I don’t know of a SINGLE PRODDY HEREON who’s the LEAST bit DISRESPECTFUL TOWARD THE AUTHENTIC MARY, MOTHER OF JESUS. Not a single one. LIES TO THE CONTRARY DON’T MAKE IT SO—AS Y’ALL SO OFTEN ASSERT.
Some of us are merciless toward the idolatrous, blasphemous, heretical hogwash proffered relentlessly in her name. AS WELL ANY RESPECTABLE CHRISTIAN SHOULD BE!
If I had a better way to describe such, I’d use it. That’s as accurate, vividly memorable, instructive a set of terms as I’ve come up with.
CHRIST RELENTLESSLY CALLED A SPADE A SPADE. The better preachers and English teachers I’ve ever had did the same. I’m not at all ashamed of doing so.
Of course, HOPEFULLY, the majority of RC’s even hereon, are aghast and hostile toward the outrageous behavior of a sizeable chunk yet minority of priests.
NEVERTHELESS, WHEN CLUELESS IDIOTS on the RC side are relentlessly flinging absurdities or even truths about Proddy sins and errors way over the line beyond reason or usefulness—a reminder of the beams in Vatican eyes is MOST FITTING. Spiteful, vengeful, obtuseness from willfully blind RC’s is not likely to be met any more kindly by me.
Such folks typically WILL NOT REMOTELY DEAL WITH the facts and truths and evidence Proddys post. THEIR VIRTUALLY ONLY claim to fame is to KILL THE MESSENGER.
Wellllllllllllllllllll whooop T Doo!
I don’t mind rubbing their own Vatican mushed bug juice in their faces at all. Maybe they’ll eventually learn something or at least decide they dont’ like the taste.
BTW there may be one Proddy that has some lingering hate toward some RC’s. I don’t know. I do NOT.
I hate the blasphemies, idolatries, horrific gross heresies and hypocrisies.
One CAN do so WITHOUT hating the persons involved. It may be difficult to impossible for RC’s as they seem to so compulsively demonstrate. It’s not that difficult for the Proddys I know hereon.
INSTITUTIONS, STRUCTURES IDEAS, DOGMA, RITUALS, !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! etc. are constructs. They are not per se, people. They are certainly not individuals.
THE INCAPACITY TO DISTINGUISH THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS AND THE INSTITUTION, STRUCTURES, IDEAS, DOGMA, RITUALS ETC.
IS A SCREAMINGLY HORRIFICALLY VIVID STINKY, PRICKLY EVIDENCE OF IDOLATRY, BLASPHEMY.
BULLY FOR YOU TO WONDERFUL FOR YOU FOR YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES TO THE CONTRARY.
I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY, I DON’T WRITE FOR THOSE FOR WHOM MY ASSERTIONS ARE NOT TRUE.
I write for those FOR WHOM MY ASSERTIONS ARE TRUE TO MOSTLY TRUE.
IF THE SHOE DOESN’T FIT—BY ALL MEANS, DON’T WEAR IT.
CLEARLY FROM THE RESPONSES OF THE PIERCED PORKERS or yelping dogs in the pack, BY GOD’S GRACE, I’VE STRUCK HOME MORE THAN A LITTLE MORE THAN A BIT OF THE TIME.
IF folks fail to get the words of wisdom embedded even in the headlines or following thereafter . . . they are welcome to, encouraged to use their page down keys liberally and rapidly.
Folks should consider themselves accountable before God to my poor humble words ONLY WHEN HOLY SPIRIT IMPRESSES ON THEM TO BE SO.
I know from experience, that He does that quite often MOST successfully weeks to years later. That’s fine with me. Whatever He does is fine with me.