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To: Quix
for whom the label is grossly, blasphemously unfitting by contrast with THE ONE who alone earned it on The Cross.

Well, that's kind of the question under discussion.

Your mentioning the cross is apposite because we have been known to call it the Tree of Life as well. So we're not exclusive in our use of metaphor.

I DO think that you will find that a theme in most of our Marian imagery is subordination.

- She is the tree but, or, rather, because Jesus is the fruit.
- She is the dawn because Jesus is the Sun.
- She is the bringer of Joy, because Jesus is the Joy.
- She is the "seat of wisdom" because Jesus is the Wisdom of God.
- She is "mother of the Eucharist" ... do I need to say how?

It is pooh-poohed here, but I think for bad reason, that we claim the title Theotokos is a Christological matter. It is certainly firm in MY alleged mind that Mary "merits" my love in an ESSENTIALLY derivative way. Without Christ and His saving work, there is no devotion to Mary, at least in my heart. She is my hero because she bore Christ and because she demonstrates that giving one's will to God means that you and I can bear Christ to others. The giving of the will is God's gift, clearly. God's response is obviously His will.

But Mary properly shares with all the redeemed the name "Christopher" - bearer of Christ. What dignifies the bearer is what she bears. It can't be otherwise. We thank and praise our garbagemen because, like Christ, they carry away and deal with the refuse of our lives, and make our lives better. But their service to us dignifies them, not what they carry.

We say even the feet of evangelists are beautiful not because of their intrinsic beauty but because they bear glad tidings of peace, and the beauty of those tidings makes even feet look good!

I think that one reason Dominicans have a special devotion to Mary is that we hope to share in her work. It would be more precise to say we hope to share in Christ's work the way she did; that is, by bearing Christ to those who hear us.

I agreed with the Ol' Mizris that for lots of reasons I would log off FR and the net as soon after 2200 hours as possible. So give me your best shot, and I'll try to say something decent tomorrow.

508 posted on 08/29/2010 7:13:05 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

As I’ve noted before,

The Lord has affirmed in my heart the authenticity of your relationship with HIM.

AND that I’m to TRUST HIM to sort out the Mary stuff in your life and in your relationship WITH HIM. I must do as HE instructs in your case.

OTHERWISE, I’d be more alarmed at even some of your assertions. On the whole, IT FEELS, APPEARS AND SEEMS like you have things mostly in proper perspective.

I certainly canNOT say the same thing for many of your cohorts nor for a LOT of the outlandish stuff written on the topic.

I think many humans and particularly RELIGIOUS humans are grossly prone to minimizing the idolatrous nature of the human heart. . . . as well as our capacity and INCLINATION to nudge, fudge, incrementally carry things over forbidden lines due to our fallen nature.

AND

WE ARE QUITE GOOD AT WHITEWASHING ALL SUCH

AS WELL AS PROVIDING THE MOST SAINTLY REASONS FOR DOING SUCH.

That’s enough. Have a good rest, Bro.


513 posted on 08/29/2010 7:34:12 PM PDT by Quix (C THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Mad Dawg

It seems almost an enviousness at times toward the great blessings God has granted Mary.

If one believes as I do that Mary was free to refuse God’s request, then the fact that she said yes makes her the most important human ever other than Jesus Himself.

Many would say that God knew she would say yes and I don’t disagree with that since He is God and knows everything.
The crux of the utter disdain for Mary seen here makes it seem as though she was compelled by God, unable to refuse, nothing more than an incubator.

But, we know that God who created her for Himself, also prepared her way. Yes, He knew from the beginning that she would say yes, He knew from the beginning that she was pure of heart and spirit, and because He knew these things, at the right time, He gave her what she needed to fulfill His call.

Now, she has gained the crown we all seek.

Can’t understand the vitriol regarding Catholic beliefs about her.


514 posted on 08/29/2010 7:37:51 PM PDT by Jvette
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