The psychologist thing is a LOT simpler and more clear cut than ANY of the usual stuff about
POOR CATHECHIZATION SP?
I don’t know how to demonstrate quickly for you . . . tired and heading for the showere . . . how hollow and empty that tired old straw dog is to Proddys.
1. IT DOES NOT RING TRUE.
2. WE HAVE FREEPERS WHO HAVE DESCRIBED THEIR EXTENSIVE HIGH QUALITY SCHOOLING AND EXTENSIVE TRAINING in the core documents of the RC faith. IT IS NEVER enough. We get the feeling that even if a famous Cardinal who trained folks in TEACHING proper Catechization were to convert to say an Assembly of God perspective, HE WOULD STILL BE ACCUSED OF BEING POORLY CATECHIZED sp. Gads I hate trying to spell that word.
3. When former priests who have had extensive training and served in doctrinaire teaching positions convert to Protestantism, THEY are ALSO CHRONICALLY ACCUSED of being POORLY CATECHIZED. IT’S ABSURD. IT’S LAUGHABLE. It make’s ya’ll’s position look extremely weak and totally outrageously absurd.
4. It may be a comforthing phrase to throw around in such cases for the sheeple. It is absolutely absurd when Proddys read it.
5. Yeah, we could allow that occasionally, it might be accurate. For all those examples all the time on every issue and case. ABSOLUTELY NOT. ABSOLUTELY ABSURD. WHAT A COP-OUT. WHAT A FARCE.
6. That’s why I think of it as beneath you to cling to that rationalization.
7. There’s no way that I think it applies to MetMom. There’s no way I think it applies to Dr E’s hubby. There’s no way I think it applies to RNMomOf7. That stinking pile of rationalization in their cases just does not fly. It’s absurd to the max.
Petitio principii. It is not a rationalization. and to say it is is a personal attack AND mind reading.
I have given two examples when someone both claimed superior knowledge and went on to say things demonstrably false. Actually, with the false accusation that we withhold the chalice, that's three matters of fact. They do not depend on agreement with the Church or anything of that kind. They are statements about the Church which are simply false.
The Church does permit married priests. I know of several.
The Church does offer the chalice, usually.
The Church does not teach anything that would lead anyone who knew the teaching to expect that the failure of the Sacred Body to look like flesh or the failure of the Precious Blood to behave like blood serves to contradict the teaching.
These are ascertainable things, and in all of them false assertions were made. Shall I then say the teaching was good?
Heck, I was told when I was in protestant seminary that one reason transubstantiation was first put forth was to assure people precisely that it would look, taste, smell, or feel or anything like flesh and blood. So it is even more amazing. As a Protestant I knew the doctrine better than that! Would someone well catechized make these gross errors of fact? And we're not talking about errors of
Suppose I buy a house and sometime later the seller calls me and says “watch out for that water heater, there’s a problem with the gas line to it”.
I go check the water heater and call him back to say “is the problem with the gas line that there isn’t one because it’s an electric water heater?”
He then starts telling me it used to be his house so obviously he knows it just as well if not better than I do and he’s even got a copy of the plans.
Meanwhile, I’m looking at an electric water heater.
Where do we go from there? Perhaps his memory isn’t very good. Maybe he’s drunk out of his mind. Maybe he’s bored and just entertaining himself. Maybe he’s thinking of a different house altogether. Clearly I want to put the most charitable spin on his tremendous error, I really don’t want to assume that he’s bad, but the fact remains that he’s wrong.
The fact remains that what passes for Catholic education has been abominable for at least the last 40 years. My best friend is a priest, he’s the godfather of my children and when the time came to decide how they should be educated I looked him in the eye and said “would you trust these kids to your parish school and religious education program?” His answer is one of the reasons we’re homeschooling them.
It’s a disaster, easily 70% of practicing Catholics can’t accurately put their faith into a coherent statement. It’s almost entirely due to the fact that they’ve been taught garbage.
I say “almost”... because there’s something else at work here that my wife has identified over the last 13 years that’s she’s worked for the Church. There’s some kind of bizarre “group think” collective memory thing going on where people are recounting events and memories that simply did not happen. There are enough incidents with concrete evidence proving that it’s going on to convince me, I just don’t understand it. It’s surreal.
But beyond that, when someone tells me something that I know isn’t true I’d far rather assume that they’re honestly telling me what they believe and were merely misinformed.
Absurd hardly describes it.
I find it ludicrous that so many FRoman Catholics posting on FR who have made no claim to any advanced, seminary type training by and in the Catholic church would sit in judgment on their very own Catholic seminary educated priests and accuse THEM of also being *poorly catechized*.
For the record to all the Catholics, that term and accusation has been bandied about so much with so little provocation, that it has lost virtually all it's effectiveness. It has degenerated into a meaningless, knee jerk, one answer fits all response to anything that doesn't fit with the FRoman Catholics idea of what the Catholic church SHOULD be like, not even what in the real world, it IS like.
A newsflash for Catholics. What you want the Catholic church to represent and what you want the Catholic church to mean and what you want Catholics to believe is a fantasy fairy land compared to reality.
It is simply not what is occurring in the real world and when we point this out, we're mocked, ridiculed, derided, told we're poorly catechized, we're called *haters*, heretics, and anything else a warm, loving, charitable, Christlike, Catholic response can generate.
Goodness, there are even Catholics on this forum who recognize the problems within the Catholic church and acknowledge that what much of what the non-Catholics are saying and observing is true, and yet they're accepted and not given a dose of the same kind of Catholic *charity* the rest of us receive.
By the admission of some of the more reasonable Catholics on this forum, the Catholic church is in a world of hurt. It's priesthood is infiltrated with pedophiles, its leadership isn't appropriately dealing with it, its membership is voting highly liberal, Catholics can't even trust their own Catholic schools to give their kids a proper Catholic education, and yet they'll defend their church to the death. Admirable loyalty and devotion, but sadly misplaced at this point in time.