Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
You betcha. As I said, we have the common ground of the Scriptures and of the validity of their narration that a man, Jesus Christ, who was God, was born into this world, served this world, died by this world and rose from the dead into heaven.
I used to find that common ground with you, too. But as you've said, you've moved away from believing the Scriptures as authoritative and God-inspired to the point now where you doubt the existence of God.
As goofy as some of these FR Roman Catholics are, according to their own words not one of them doubts the existence of God.
If I were Greg Bahnsen or Van Til I could debate you with more sincerity. They were great debaters against agnostics and atheists. I simply have not learned the knack. I argue from Scripture. When that Scripture is dismissed as fiction, my only response is to reply "I hope you find again what you once thought you had because I still have it and it sustains me every day."
One last try. 8~)
Excellent
THANKS THANKS.
ROTFLOL!!!
Hoisted by their own petards. (What exactly is a petard and how is it hoisted?)
Not even a tiny little bit.
just out of curiosity, does your home page accurately reflect what you believe? thanks
Shhhhhhh! Pretend this is Japan. We'd be held in a place of honor.
Oh, I'm certain he is very happy to have you on his side. He did a little swimming too. :-)
Oh, I'm certain he is very happy to have you on his side. He did a little swimming too. :-)
I would hope you could distinguish the difference in promising the parents of the unbaptized The Church hopes for the salvation of your child" and the shopping list of Hope you have listed.
I am with the Priest who ignores the teaching of the Church and says "your child is in heaven with God."
Does it accurately reflect what I believe? Yes. Do I accurately reflect what I believe? HAH!
Although... I often find myself asking my children "Do you think you're better than your brothers and sisters?" and when they say no I wonder out loud why they act like they think they're better. You'd think our words and deeds would accurately reflect what we really believe. Maybe we fail to live up to what we aspire to, but we never fail to accurately reflect what we really believe... which is horribly depressing.
no need to get all hysterical, just asking
Etymology: Middle French, from peter to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from Latin peditum, from neuter of peditus, past participle of pedere to break wind; akin to Greek bdein to break wind
Date: 1598
Somehow I don't think what they had in mind. :-)
"Blown up by your own bomb." is more likely.
huh, and all these years I envisioned a sock or something attached to a jock strap device
Here’s what I find from google:
“For ‘tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his owne
petar” — Shakespeare, Hamlet III iv. “Hoist” was in Shakespeare’s
time the past participles of a verb “to hoise”, which meant what “to
hoist” does now: to lift. A petard (see under “peter out” for the
etymology) was an explosive charge detonated by a slowly burning
fuse. If the petard went off prematurely, then the sapper (military
engineer; Shakespeare’s “enginer”) who planted it would be hurled
into the air by the explosion. (Compare “up” in “to blow up”.) A
modern rendition might be: “It’s fun to see the engineer blown up
with his own bomb.”
I think that's pretty much the bottom line here isn't it? When an attempt is made to demonstrate what is meant by the word "hope" from a Catholic theological perspective it's dismissed as a "shopping list".
A moment when a priest could explain that our "hope" is in Jesus Christ who never fails "placing our trust in Christ's promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit" is just ignored for a platitude as if our HOPE in Christ is a pedestrian, pious facade. The theological virtue of Hope isn't "I hope we have chicken for dinner".
I did put the more "correct" definition in tiny font.
Here's the problem (as I see it) in a nutshell. Within Catholicism, the definition of "outermost circle of Christianity" is the two-pronged "apostolic succession/papal submission" and "valid Eucharist" (transubstantiation). All other doctrinal issues, while not ignored, are secondary considerations. In this mindset, if you're a "real" Christian you must be Catholic. And if you're not Catholic, you're at best a member of an "ecclesial community" (Protestants), of a "defective church" (Orthodox), or not a Christian at all. Thus, the mindset of Catholicism towards the corporate exercise of Christianity is exclusivist by design. You're either (already) Catholic, or you're well outside the safety zone.
Now using that mindset, when Catholics look upon Protestant denominations, they believe that all denominations must similarly be fully exclusivist towards all other denominations. They think that Protestants exclude all denominations/members not their own from the full body of Christ, because that's how it Catholics themselves approach others. While some "Protestant" congregations and denominations (using those terms loosely) may act that way towards outsiders, the majority do not (and the creedal ones IMO less so).
I find it amusing that it was Calvinists and Presbyterians who came up with the "Five Fundamentals" (where the perjorative "fundamentalist" comes from) as an ecumenical tool to find common ground with Christians of all persuasions (including Catholics and Orthodox). I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity. Sure, we might argue doctrine, we might argue about what are "doctrines of demons" or what is the "gospel of Satan", but those are inter-family squabbles as far as many of us are concerned. Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot reach across the aisle and say the same, IMO.
Related threads:
The word is evangelical, not fundamentalist
The many forms of fundamentalism
Put that cup of coffee down [re the proper use of the religious term "fundamentalist"]
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