Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[Cronos]

so you are saying that you believe Arminius to be an agent of The Church?

[circlecity]

Romans 9:11-13 is inapplicable because Esau didn’t die in the womb. The verses merely point out God predestined him to reprobation.

[Cronos]

if the idea you've mentioned before, that Mary is teaching aborted babies about Christ, has merit that makes her the single greatest evangelist in history. The numbers are up to almost half a billion direct abortions per year.

500 million abortions a year!!?!! Shame on us all

[Cronos]

"The real bummer is when an elect soul gets to eternity, and then asks the Calvin god where his stillborn child is. Then the Calvin god, wiping away the poor soul’s tears, says, Well my son, I predestined your beloved son/daughter from before the very foundation of the world that he/she would spend all eternity suffering everlasting torment in the fiery pits of hell, for it is all well and good and pleasing to me, and it brings me great glory to boot."

egad

[Legatus]

500 million abortions a year!!?!! Shame on us all

wait wait... my brain went nuts... it's 45million per year... Good GRIEF! It was the middle of the night and I couldn't sleep. How embarrassing.

[jjotto]

Note that the date 520-70 BCE is for the whole 2nd Temple period, not for the Men of the Great Assembly. Jewish history records their dates rather precisely, naming each leader after them. Christian sources have their own reasons for altering dates.

http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/anshei.htm

Judaism 101
A Glossary of Basic Jewish Terms and Concepts

Anshei Knesset HaGedolah

Anshei Knesset HaGedolah (Men of the Great Assembly) founded by Ezra in approximately 520 B.C.E., this institution of Torah Sages led the Jewish People at the beginning of the Second Temple Era (ca. 520 B.C.E. - 70 C.E.). It included Mordechai and the last of the prophets Chaggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Among the accomplishments of the Anshei Knesset HaGedolah were finalizing the contents of the Tanach,the 24-Book Hebrew Bible, instituting the Shemoneh Esray Prayer (recited at least three times daily, and ultimately to serve as a substitute for the Temple Sacrifices), and the enacting of many Laws to protect and bolster the observance of the Torah Commands.

According to Pirkei Avot (1:1), they are the fifth link in the Chain of Jewish Tradition: 1) Moshe receives it from Sinai and teaches it to 2) Yehoshua to the 3) Elders to the 4) Prophets to the 5) Anshei Knesset HaGedolah, at the end of the Biblical Period (ca. 520 B.C.E.). Pirkei Avot (1:2) also identifies Shimon HaTzaddik (Shimon the Righteous) among the last of the Men of the Great Assembly at the beginning of the Talmudic Period (ca. 200 B.C.E.)...

[Cronos]

One of the posters being addressed had been told to leave the thread by the religion moderator and has started a thread (to which I linked) absolutely excoriating Wesleyanism. So it seemed to me if Wesleyan doctrine is "satanic" (not my words btw) that the idea of Protestant unity on essentials is a myth.

Dissenting Catholics are lumped in with faithful Catholics and we get "see, Catholics have no unity of belief but Protestants agree on Biblical doctrines". Faithful Catholics are in agreement with what the Church teaches though but "Faithful Wesleyans" and "Faithful Calvinists" aren't in agreement on free will and predestination (at least). So my question was "are Wesleyans not actually Protestants"... since I gather from what I'm seeing in that other thread that they're almost as scummy as Catholics.

Aha -- just caught up with that (I'm 6 hours ahead of you, but a day behind :-P)

Well, it's not surprising that you would reject this particular aspect of Wesley's free-will teachings. Free-Willer Theology certainly gets more repugnant to the Christian, the better one understands its inherently-Satanic nature. There is no Protestant unity on essentials or anything except that they are not Catholic.

Wesleyans, Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans all believe in different things.

And You're right -- the Calvinists' seem to hate Arminians

Incidently, Dr. E -- I don't see anywhere in Arminius' bio that he visited Rome -- where did you get that?

[Cronos]

45 million abortions -- Shame on us all

Both are horrendous numbers, all in the name of "convenience"

[Cronos]

thank you for that link.

[Cronos]

There have been and still are, many groups in the Middle East that are in between the four big groups of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism.

The Samaritans claim they are the last remnants of the Israelite religion from before the Babylonian exile and keep the old ways distinct from rabbinical Judaism (Incidently the idea of angels and the Messiah -- would you say that comes from after the exile, and influenced by Zoroastrianism and Zoroastrian magi (priests)?)

Then you have Mandaens who claim Adam, Noah, John the Baptist etc as their prophets, but the Mandaeans believe that Abraham, Moses,Jesus and Muhammad were false prophets

then you have the Druze (The Druze call themselves Ahl al-Tawhid "People of Unitarianism or Monotheism" or al-Muwaḥḥidūn "Unitarians, Monotheists.") which seems a mixture of all four religious groups + Platonic ideals.

Then the Yazidi belief system, in which God created the world and it is now in the care of a Heptad of seven Holy Beings, often known as Angels or heft sirr (the Seven Mysteries). Preeminent among these is Tawûsê Melek (frequently known as "Melek Taus" in English publications), the Peacock Angel. According to the Encyclopedia of the Orient,

The reason for the Yazidis reputation of being devil worshipers is connected to the other name of Melek Taus, Shaytan, the same name the Koran has for Satan

Yazidis, however, believe Tawûsê Melek is not a source of evil or wickedness. They consider him to be the leader of the archangels, not a fallen angel. They also hold that the source of evil is in the heart and spirit of humans themselves, not in Tawûsê Melek

Then you have the Alawis (of whom the leader of Syria, Assad is one) who are strictly speaking a mixture of Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism again.

And in the first millenium, this mix was even crazier with Nestorians, Gnostics, Mazdaism, Manichaenism, Arians, pagan Arabic religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. all vying for attention with the big four.

[trisham]

No it's not... it's resting.

**********************

LOL!

[metmom]

I saw that thread and am not impressed.

[jjotto]

Yep. The confusion went on from the time of Nebuchadnezzer, who ‘mixed up’ distinct populations, and then the Greeks mixed up ideas. That’s why Jews rely on an explicit history handed down from identifiable teacher to identifiable student. It’s a maze, as all scholars agree.

[wagglebee]

I've noticed that when Roman Catholics are losing the arguments on some of these threads, certain Arminian posters pop up and derail the discussion.

Really? That's what you've noticed? Fascinating.

What I've noticed is that, on occasion, the bigotry of certain anti-Catholics becomes particularly obnoxious and Protestants who realize that bigotry isn't actually something that Christians should aspire to will step in and point out how un-Christian the anti-Catholics are.

I'm curious though? What do you define as Catholics "losing" the arguments? Can you point to a single one of these threads where a Catholic FReeper has actually decided to become a Calvinist? What exactly is it that you think you have "won" here?

Several days ago I pointed out something about this thread that nobody has seemed to address and that is the FACT that this thread was posted and written by a pro-abortion, ATHEIST FReeper who was banned for being a troll. The premise of this thread is based on an absurd assumption that is based on a totally false understanding of historical events, yet a group of dedicated swarmed the thread and I can only conclude that this was done because they were attracted to the title.

I must say that it was rather eye-opening yesterday to see a thread posted where Calvinists openly call other Protestants satanic and blasphemous. But I still wonder, if God has predestined EVERYTHING and man has no free will at all, what is the point in Calvinists engaging in these debates? Are certain Calvinists predestined to show how hateful they can be? Or do they secretly doubt their own salvation and think that sadistic attempts at demonstrating superiority will some how prove their predestination?

[Mad Dawg]

But He DID make you smart and good looking! We all look forward with eager hope to the day when we can enjoy the gifts He gives you.

So there.

[Mad Dawg]

Maybe so, maybe not. We need a Buddhist to keep score.

[Running On Empty]

Ah, yes. Beauty is in the eyes of the Beholder ...and He loves me. Just think of that! He loves me!

[trisham]

Several days ago I pointed out something about this thread that nobody has seemed to address and that is the FACT that this thread was posted and written by a pro-abortion, ATHEIST FReeper who was banned for being a troll. The premise of this thread is based on an absurd assumption that is based on a totally false understanding of historical events, yet a group of dedicated swarmed the thread and I can only conclude that this was done because they were attracted to the title.

**************************

It's rather ironic.

[Mad Dawg]

As Socrates said, It is better to suffer injustice than to commit it. While the slaughter of innocents is dreadful, the graver harm is suffered by the perpetrators.

[Running On Empty]

Thanks for this post.

It expresses so well the sentiments of not just a few.

It speaks for common sense, and peace among men of good will.