Posted on 08/15/2010 3:56:22 PM PDT by TaraP
Somehow I knew you would trash the original to fit your theology ...
I trust the NASB translators more than I do you ... sorry.
caww:
You misunderstood what I wrote. The assumption of Mary is a prefiguration of the glory that all will share in heaven by virture of Christ Passion, Death and Resurrection. Mary has already received her reward for being faithful to God. So all who die in Christ will experience the Resurrection of the Dead. Again, Mary was “assumed into heaven” by God’s Power and thus is the model of what God’s Grace does to humanity, it makes us Holy and thus able to see God face to face in heaven.
I have not usurped Christ, it is your misunderstanding that makes you “think that I have” but I have not. Again, Mary’s Assumption was done by the Power of God and just as she was Assumed into heaven, all who die in CHrist will be “Assumed into heaven” when they experience the Resurrection of the Dead, which also is a result of Christ paschal mystery and thus by the power of God.
In the phrase “all have sinned,” what does the word “all” mean?
“but the sin nature is transmitted through the man not the woman.”
Might I remind you that it was the woman who first ate of the fruit so it would more likely be stated that sin was passed from the woman to the man.
How do you know?
Anyone taking up the New Testament and reading it through can see how fragmentary an account of events it gives not only of our Lord’s life on earth but especially of the history of the early Church. Peter is the “star” of the first half of Acts, but he abruptly disappears and we read nothing further about him. About Paul’s career prior to his arrest in Jerusalem we get just a sketchy account if twenty years of activity. and it leaves us —again—hanging about what happens to him. If he tells us nothing about the ultimate fate of Peter and Paul, is it surprising that he says nothing about the end of mother of the Lord?
Some will say that the story of the Assumption of Marry was a pious invention, but others will say they same about the first two chapters of the Gospel of Luke, which tells of marvels much more wondrous. From a certain perspective, each is an embellishment of the essential story, which —they think-is told by ‘ Mark.” It is only on the authority of the Church that we say that this is not the case. From my perspective, the same Church that guarantees the canon is the one that guarantees the truth of the Assumption. I simply do not believe that true Christianity is what can be stitched together by reading the Bible.
Sorry but what you stated still is not true...there was a resurrection when when Christ died....if any prefigure what awaits us it is those who rose then....and this happened before Mary died....so she was not the frontrunner by any means.
Though undoubtedly Mary is with the Lord...her role was pretty much over when Christ went to the temple and He said he must be about His Fathers business....that was a heads up to Mary.
The glorified physical bodies of Jesus and Mary reside there
Why do you pay heed to fantasies?
There is no biblical evidence that Mary's body is anything but buried after typical ancient Judean practice, there to await the resurrection. I give no credence in this to popish pronouncements, or the ravings of second century gnostic loonytunes.
Heaven
"The Bible tells us of the existence of a realm our mortal eyes cannot see...."
Youre preaching to the choir ... I never said Mary was sinless ... I agree with Rom 6.23 that "all" means all. What I am saying is that Jesus was fully human because he was born of Mary ... but He didnt have the sin nature because he was not conceived through relations with a man and its the man that transmits the sin nature.
It means “all”
“Jesus never once asked us to pray to Mary”
Look, buddy, we don’t pray to Mary the same way we pray to Christ. We pray to Christ as God. We pray to Mary as his human mother just as we ask each other to intercede for us as fellow believers. If you look at the word pray, you will see that it simply means ask. Prithee . . . . Because we do pray to God the word has taken on overtones of only meaning asking God. But it’s use with regard to Mary does not mean asking God. It is an ancient use of a term which was used both for humans and God. “Worship” once was used both for humans and for God but with totally different meaning depending on which. Look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Out of your ignorance of the English language, you claim that using the term for Mary means we pray to her as God.
WE DO NOT. This is a fact. Lie about it all you want, but it is a lie because you have been warned—you have read these threads, by your own admission.
Before God and his Mother I call you out on this. We pray to Mary to ask her to intercede for us as a fellow human being and follower of her Son our Lord. We pray to Him as God Almighty become incarnate to save us.
Disagree all you want on whether Mary was sinless or not or whether Jesus honored her as His mother or not but if you repeat this claim that we pray to her equals prayer to Christ, you are a liar.
“I simply do not believe that true Christianity is what can be stitched together by reading the Bible.”
But if it contradicts the Bible we can say it’s not Biblical, therefore not true.
The Bible plainly says that evey person will die. The idea that Mary did not die but was “assumed” into heaven cannot be true. And if she was “assumed” into heaven without dying the Bible would surely have told us as it did in the case of Eligah and Enoch. It tells us that Elijah and Enoch are yet to return to earth to die.
Just because the Bible doesnt say what happened to Mary after death, it does not give us license to grant her assumption to Heaven.
Eve was deceived. Adam was not. Adam was our representative through male headship. He was not deceived but willingly disobeyed God ... HE is the source of sin and death in the world.
Paul makes this clear.
It’s not snotty to point out that you claimed more than can be claimed.
You said Jesus said. Now you walk it back to another “all men” will die, which begs the “exception” question.
Which is moot because, as I pointed out, we are noncommittal on whether Mary died or not. She might well have died. I would say far the majority of Catholic theologians believe she did die.
But you called us liars. Sounds a tad drippy to me.
Well, then, we shall see about this theory when two lesbians are able to conceive via unnatural means, I suppose. That day is rapidly approaching.
Such issue is more likely to be some soulless “Village Of The Damned” spawn than sinless, imho. It’s a return to what provoked God to sufficient rage to destroy the world once before. As in the days of Noah ...
Thanks, but I haven’t asked you. It is a specific question for a specific poster.
There is not one place in the New Testament that people pray to Mary or saints in the early church the apostles never wrote of it in the book of Acts or the epistles............ There is no Old Testament or New Testament teaching of praying to the dead...... and while they may be very much alive in heaven the Bible categorizes them as dead because they are no longer with us here on earth after their body is put to the ground.
Gonna do that without male sperm? ... I wont be holding my breath.
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