Posted on 08/14/2010 10:39:35 AM PDT by markomalley
St. Paul had the following to say about the subject in his first letter to the Church in Corinth (chap 7):
25 Now, concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord: but I give counsel, as having obtained mercy of the Lord, to be faithful. 26 I think therefore that this is good for the present necessity: that it is good for a man so to be. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Seek not to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Seek not a wife. 28 But if you take a wife, you have not sinned. And if a virgin marries, she has not sinned: nevertheless, such shall have tribulation of the flesh. But I spare you. 29 This therefore I say, brethren: The time is short. It remains, that they also who have wives be as if they had none: 30 And they that weep, as though they wept not: and they that rejoice, as if they rejoiced not: and they that buy as if they possessed not: 31 And they that use this world, as if they used it not. For the fashion of this world passes away. 32 But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord: how he may please God. 33 But he that is with a wife is solicitous for the things of the world: how he may please his wife. And he is divided. 34 And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinks on the things of the Lord: that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she that is married thinks on the things of the world: how she may please her husband. 35 And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord, without impediment. 36 But if any man think that he seems dishonoured with regard to his virgin, for that she is above the age, and it must so be: let him do what he will. He sins not if she marry. 37 For he that has determined, being steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but having power of his own will: and has judged this in his heart, to keep his virgin, does well. 38 Therefore both he that gives his virgin in marriage does well: and he that gives her not does better. 39 A woman is bound by the law as long as her husband lives: but if her husband die, she is at liberty. Let her marry to whom she will: only in the Lord. 40 But more blessed shall she be, if she so remain, according to my counsel. And I think that I also have the spirit of God.
“...In other words, the answer isn’t birth control, it’s self control. This is the true freedom...”
I’ve heard a Priest asked: Isn’t the celibacy, the self-denial, the life of poverty - isn’t it difficult?
The answer, which blew me away: No, its all for my own benefit, and in my own self-interest!
This writer talks a good game about Protestants, Evangelicals, and Catholics and who has “lost their way”, but the reality of who believes what is in which agenda that they actually push by law and vote.
Catholics vote majority pro-abortion left, and Protestants always vote pro-life right. There seems to be a disconnect between Catholic theories and writings about themselves and Protestants, and reality.
The author, a convert from Evangelical Protestantism, makes a claim that the virtues of a celibate life (not specifically about staying chaste before marriage, but living a life of celibacy) are not taught in Evangelical churches.
Is he accurate in what he says? (I don’t know, not being an evangelical)
If he’s wrong, say so.
The priest was indeed, giving himself, wholly to God, in the Sacrament of Holy Orders. His answer doesn’t surprise me at all.
And an excellent way to practice that virtue of self-control is Natural Family Planning.
Divorce Rate Comparisons Between Couples Using NFP & Artificial Birth Control
'Amazing Grace for Those Who Suffer'
Natural and Unnatural (father of 5 shocks mother of 1)
NFP — It Ain’t Your Momma’s Rhythm
Responsible Parenthood in a Birth Control Culture, Part Two [Open]
Responsible Parenthood in a Birth Control Culture, Part One [Open]
Contraception v. Natural Family Planning — Part 5 of 6 [Open]
Journey to the Truth (Natural Family Planning) [Open]
Enslaving Women One Pill at a Time (Birth Control Pills and Natural Family Planning)
New Study Shows Natural Family Planning Technique More “Effective” Than Contraception
Fargo) Diocese set to require pre-marriage course in natural family planning
Making Babies: A Very Different Look at Natural Family Planning
Clerical Contraception (Important Read! By Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer)
(Fargo) Diocese set to require pre-marriage course in natural family planning
Natural Family Planning Awareness Week, July 25, 2004
IS NATURAL FAMILY PLANNING A 'HERESY'? (Trads, please take note)
Thanks Doc: More (and Younger) Doctors Support Natural Family Planning
Couple say Natural Family Planning strengthens marriage
Reflections: Natural family planning vs sexism
British Medical Journal: Natural Family Planning= Effective Birth Control Supported by Catholic Chrch
Natural Family Planning
It is taught that there is a “gift” of celibacy. Not all have it. One can’t live a celibate life if not gifted this way. That is my understanding.
This article is a real mixed bag. On the one hand, he makes some good points against the culture of the day, but he then turns around and lauds the Catholic church for the very things they have been wrong about for centuries.
For example, the author writes: “ Many evangelicals consider sex for married people to be like food – it’s inappropriate, unhealthy, and even wrong to expect or encourage married couples to abstain from sex for any period of time.”
His characterization of the evangelical position is wrong—quite wrong. Here is what the scriptures say:
“The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.” 1 Corinthians 7:4-7.
You will note that married celibacy is all but forbidden to the married. That it is only allowed for a limited time, “for prayer” (i.e. not for “family planning”).
Celibacy for the kingdom is encouraged, but only to those have it as a special gift of God. It is NOT a requirement to dedicate one’s life to the church:
“This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. Don’t we have the right to food and drink? Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas? Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?” 1 Corinthians 9:3-6.
Of note here is the fact that Paul had, not only permission, but a right to take a wife with him in his work—a direct contradiction of the Roman Catholic’s position regarding clerical celibacy, when the passage above is also taken into account.
Indeed, I find such authors has this to be troubling to the sensitive consciences in the church because of his error. From the article again:
“So it is now more than ever that our world needs the celibate witness. Celibate priests, monks, and nuns, even lay people who are living the single life – we need you to stand as witnesses to the world and to our separated brethren, and as a constant reminder to married couples within the Church, that we do not need sex, that sex does not lead to happiness.”
Of interest is that, here, celibacy is praised in and of itself, running down the value of sex. Biblical sex is not merely permitted, but beautiful and natural, ordained by God and as natural an aspect of the human condition (fallen or unfallen, in this case) as food.
“”For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.” Ephesians 5:31
As with food and the other pleasurable gifts of God, it has been warped and perverted by a warped and perverted world—it is this that we ought to stand tall and firm against (Ephesians 5:3-7), not sex itself. Celibacy is valued in scripture only to the extent that for the given individual it further advances the kingdom of Christ.
“I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband.” 1 Corinthians 7:32-34.
He’s wrong.
I grew up in evangelical church circles, and abstinence was always faithfully preached for all unmarried people.
This article is the usual case of an over-excited recent Catholic convert. As is often the case, anyone who recently converts to something is a bit overexcitable about the perfect of his new path....
Thanks for the thorough response. Is there any way I could ask you to go over and post them to the author’s blog?
That wasn't what he said. In fact, he acknowledged your point: except for maintaining the caveat that sex is only for marriage.
Catholics are a liberal voting block and have been since they started showing up in America, the Protestant vote is almost a perfect record of supporting conservatism, yet article after article gives the impression that Catholics are conservative and are trying to stop Protestant liberalism, it is bizarre.
To a conservative it is a troubling to see someone move from our most conservative religious category to a liberal church and then start lecturing the conservative Christians.
The article has an arrogant put down tone to it.
To a conservative it is a troubling to see someone move from our most conservative religious category to a liberal church and then start lecturing the conservative Christians.
And this has what to do with the article? This is on-topic how???
If you want to talk about all Catholics being liberals and starting a movement to have all Catholics kicked off of Free Republic unless they renounce Catholicism, then be my guest...on your own thread.
In the meantime, if you have an issue with something the author said, why don't you address the points in the article rather than engage in a non-sequitur attack on the author (and, for that matter, all Catholic FReepers)?
The writer wrote a snarky article about converting people to Catholicism, the Democrats already have enough Catholics and millions more are being imported from Mexico, what we need right now to bring morality back to America are more conservatives, not more liberals.
On what planet???
Yeah, the voting record of conservative, pro-life, pro-family Protestants is conservative, pro-life, and pro-family. Duh. That's a self-selected group; of course they behave consistently with their self-selection.
Check out the voting record of Catholics who demonstrate in front of abortuaries, or attend the "Defending the Faith" conference in Steubenville, or are involved in Opus Dei, the Serra Club, or any of a number of other lay apostolates. Or visit any parish where the TLM is celebrated, and see if you can find an Obama voter. Good luck!
OTOH, ELCA Lutherans are still "Protestant" in any meaningful, historically accurate sense of the word. Think they vote conservative and pro-life? Don't bet on it.
The last four Democratic Presidents were all at least nominally Protestants. Want to tell us how "conservative" they were?
(And no, I'm not going to tell you Jack Kennedy was any better.)
Catholics voted for Protestant George Bush over faux-Catholic John F. Kerry 52 to 45 percent in 2004. Catholics who attend Mass weekly voted for the faux-Republican John McCain over the Muslo-Marxist usurper 50 to 49 percent. That's the definition of a swing vote, not a "liberal voting block".
I think a certain percentage of FR anti-Catholics are liberal as all heck, and are agents provocateurs, here to drive a wedge between Catholics and the conservative movement.
Are you one of them?
No it isn't, the "Protestant" vote includes all Protestants, blacks, Hispanics and all of the none Catholic Christians no matter how left wing, yet the Protestant vote still ALWAYS goes majority conservative, if you leave out 1964 and 1932/1936, Roosevelt could not even win the Protestant vote in 1940 and 1944, nor Truman, or Kennedy, or Carter, or Clinton, (they all and more, of course won the Catholic vote) etc.
Catholics on the other hand have almost always voted left, there are some modern exceptions of course, you mentioned 2004 (but left out the 2000 Catholic Gore vote) when Catholics voted 52% Republican, Hispanic Protestants voted 56% Republican in that election though.
Hispanic Protestants are voting to the right of the Catholic vote, in 2008 for instance when Obama was winning 54% of Catholics, he was only winning 52% of Hispanic Protestants. We do not need more Catholic voters.
Thank you for “rightly dividing the Word of Truth” on this subject. If people would spend more time reading God’s word in it’s completeness, rather than taking a verse here and there to support a view, or worse, simply letting someone else tell them what it says, we would have far less societal problems.
Please not the NFP post. What next Theology of the Body? No thanks. Part of being Catholic is being “open to life” “being generous” and “trusting God”. NFP is the exact opposite- taking control from God because we don’t trust Him, the Master of our lives to bless us with a baby, or we are too lazy and selfish to want to have a baby.
Please not the NFP post. What next Theology of the Body? No thanks. Part of being Catholic is being “open to life” “being generous” and “trusting God”. NFP is the exact opposite- taking control from God because we don’t trust Him, the Master of our lives to bless us with a baby, or we are too lazy and selfish to want to have a baby.
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