Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Mad Dawg
“Well, strictly speaking, not having the knowledge the FATHER has.

Yes, “Father” is the word used and I should’ve noted that.

“I am familiar with the Jehovah's Witnesses’ claim thuat when Jesus says “I and the Father are one,” he means one in purpose. I never found that persuasive.”

As I am. Certainly when when two people say they are “one” it means far more than just purpose, ..... attitude, experience, moral character, so forth is involved for them to be “one”.

One in purpose IS an over simplification to be sure given Jesus’ statements about the closeness he has with his father.
But what we do see in this prayer is a comparison of the the relationship between Jesus and the Father and that of the disciples, as in vs. 22: “..that they may be one even as we are one”,

It follows then that Jesus could say he and his Father were “one” without it necessarily referring to a trinity.

The Middle Eastern way of expression does seem “high falutin’” to our English language speakers, doesn't it?

66 posted on 08/15/2010 7:08:32 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies ]


To: count-your-change
One in purpose IS an over simplification to be sure given Jesus’ statements about the closeness he has with his father.
But what we do see in this prayer is a comparison of the the relationship between Jesus and the Father and that of the disciples, as in vs. 22: “..that they may be one even as we are one”,

It follows then that Jesus could say he and his Father were “one” without it necessarily referring to a trinity.
[emphasis added]

First of all, yes, certainly. I tcould be construed that way and it is not necessarily construed in a Trinitarian way, as far as I can tell.

However, what I seem to notice is that non-Trinitarians seem also to have what I think of as a non-mystical set of opinions about the 'end of man.'

We think of what you might call "man-ness" taken up into God in Jesus, so that it is a God/Man sitting at the right hand of the Father. Thus in our thinking the 'end of man' is an ever closer and ever more intimate union with God. (I ask my students who are math-capable to think of asymptotic curves, always approaching some limit 'closer than any given interval' yet never reaching the limit.)

I know "mystical" is a controversial word, but I don't know another one to use.

I do not generally see such thinking among those who think of Jesus as a creature or as somehow less than God in every respect.

In my prayer and in my thinking that is the best possible understanding of the perfection of happiness that I have come across. It preserves the difference between Creator and creature while honoring the aspiration of the longing human heart.

So when I -- koff, koff -- expound (no, stop laughing!) that part of John, I talk about our being caught up in the Life of the Trinity, in the Life of God Himself -- the Spirit already in us drawing us closer and always closer to God, conforming our will to His Will ever more closely, and filling our hearts with His Love ever more fully.

So, in that exposition, it follows inevitably that we will be closer to one another, and approximate ever more exactly the oneness of God.

Something like that anyway....

76 posted on 08/15/2010 7:55:36 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson