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To: RachelFaith

So we are presently bound to a great cloud of witnesses or Martyrs. ARE as in now or presently. As for what “sleep” means in the GREEK you never explain it.

Since I don’t know GREEK and God obviously has not blessed any English version(since the language is so imprecise as you “state”) of the Bible so that people can’t get any benefit from it (sarcasm implied) let me just say that from what I’ve been taught, this term of “sleeping saints” has more to do with a restful repose in a Paradise state or in “Abraham’s Bosum” as Christ mentions in the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus was obviously alert and conscious when the condemned man asked that Lazarus should come over to give him a sip of water. Now whether or not Christ was uttering a parable to explain the notion of scripture and the tendency stubborn humans to deny the truth even when confronted with a man so risen from the dead(in physical corporeal form) or teaching from a true event, he WAS relating real conditions as they occur after death. There is a great gulf fixed between the condenmed and the blessed, there is some awareness of each other, and they are obviously self aware and awake. What-ever else they are aware of, only God knows.


307 posted on 08/21/2010 12:15:09 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Mike Mathis is my name,opinions are my own,subject to flaming when deserved!)
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To: mdmathis6
Again, you keep using the example from Lazarus and the Rich man. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let me be so.

Anyone who died before Christ, was carried away by the Angels to Abrham's Bosom. The side of Sheol, of the dead, where they waited for the price to be paid of their ransom. The wicked dead, were in torment, but not THE lake of fire, everlasting torment, on the other side of Sheol, the Abussos.

In this state, YES. Conscientiousness occurs. The rich man was VERY aware of what was going on and wished his brothers, still living to be warned. Those dead do NOT sleep, do not rest. No rest for the wicked.

When Jesus was on the cross he Promised the Thief, he would BE in Paradise, Abrahams Bosom THAT DAY! They both died, Jesus being the LAST of the dead and first born 3 days later. ALL the good left Sheol. Adam, Moses, The Thief, and Jesus and went to heaven, where they, labor to build a house for Jesus's bride. The Church.

Regardless of denomination. The saved, the redeemed, the blessed. Catholic, Protestant, I would bet even a few cultists, as long as the did repent and believe, even if they had HORRID doctrine all around them. That bride, Jesus is going to come GET. Mary is part of that body. No other role for her. Here or then.

As Jesus himself said. When the woman said Blessed is the one who nursed you, "Rather, blessed are those who Believe."

We do not, I think, have any disagrement on the word "Rather". Which means, NO ... Think THIS instead.

So, back to the old testament. Those dead DID speak. DID know. The wicked STILL DO. If you want rest, sleep, then believe and you won't be bothered with this nonsense going on.

If this world matters to you, be unrepentant and you WILL stay awake, knowing. But that is not a comfort.

So, let us discuss SLEEP. As used in the KJV. I am sorry if you do not study Hebrew or Greek, as they do provide the keys missing in English.

Blessed for you, however, is that MANY others have and thus through books, translators and software, we can all be educated.

The word Sleep in the Hebrew meaning common sleep as in night time rest for 8 hours, is (yashen), which occurs 19 times in 19 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV.

Job 33:15 is a perfect example.

There is a DEEPER sleep which is supernatural and it is called (shehah), which occurs 23 times in 23 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV.

A good example is: Zac 4:1 or Dan 2:1 this is the Dreaming Dreams sleep.

In the New Testament, normal sleep is called καθεύδω (katheudō), which occurs 23 times in 20 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV.

Luke 22:46, when Jesus uses the word asking Why his Disciples could not keep watch with him the night he was taken. They were sleeping Normally and just tired.

Now the sleep of the dead, is κοιμάω (koimaō), which occurs 19 times in 18 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV.

This is the word used in John 11:11 for Lazarus the dead guy later raised, not the beggar.

This is the word used in all of 1 Cor 15, 1 Thes, and 2nd Peter 3:4

So, I hope, this puts to rest (pun intended) our sleep topic.

And to the beginning issue, YES, we are presently Bound, in Christ to all those who are both dead and living IN Him.

All those given to Him by the Father, He will not lose any. Not even to the Grave or the gates of Hell. They REST, waiting for his Shout "Bride I am here, come to me".

When they hear this, they rise first and We, if still living are "caught up" "Harpozo" in the Greek, "Raptos" in the Latin, raptured in the KJV, to be with Him. You, Me, Mary, Stephen, Paul, Peter, Constantine, all together all at once. In the twinkling of an eye.

311 posted on 08/21/2010 1:51:10 PM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Unless the GOP Senate ruins it all...)
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