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To: Viking83

Great Post - a little side note to the Catholic bashers. it was the Catholic Councils of the church that decided which books would be in the New Testament and the Book of Revelation was not a shoe-in.

St. Augustine championed its inclusion:
Augustine ... adopted the Book of Revelation partly because it had been so troublesome and its place needed to be stabilized. And partly because it helped him solve some other theological dilemmas that he was wrestling with in his own studies. So around 393, 394 it seems there were several councils that were being convened in his own region where debates ... with people who believed in greater degree of free will and other kinds of theological issues were all taking place. And during this context of these councils the decision on which books to use in the New Testament as the authority, behind which all other Christian theology would be worked out, came up. Augustine championed using the Book of Revelation within the New Testament, assuming, as others had, that it was actually written by the Apostle John, therefore carrying authority. ...

What Augustine does by helping put the Book of Revelation in the Bible really accomplishes two things. One, he provides what will become, at least eventually, the normative reinterpretation of the book by reading all of the symbolism in it as just that, symbolism and not literal history. Now, that doesn’t happen overnight, but his view is the one that will eventually carry the day throughout most of later Christian tradition.

The second thing that he does in canonizing the Book of Revelation is they put it at the end of the New Testament, and this also has a very significant symbolic force. Because at the end of the Book of Revelation, we have a strong warning, “You may not add to or take away from any thing in this book.” Now originally in the Book of Revelation that refers to the revelation that John himself saw—write it, seal it, don’t do anything more with it, it’s over. But when you take that put it at the end of the New Testament, it has the double force of saying John’s revelation of the end is sealed up but also this is the end of the New Testament, there will no longer be any future revelations from God that will stand alongside of the New Testament itself. ...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/brevelation.html


31 posted on 08/10/2010 3:35:48 PM PDT by MassRepublican
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To: MassRepublican

My friend, the process of canonization of the books of the Bible cannot be fully attributed to “Catholic Councils”. The process of determining the canonized books was a process that occurred over a three hundred year period. Most of the NT canon was accepted as such in the first hundred years, before there could be said to be a church under the authority of the Bishop of Rome. Believers in Asia and Africa, in many cases having divergent views, sometimes bordering on the heretical, also contributed to the acceptance of canon. Some books weren’t immediately accepted while a couple accepted by some groups did not stand the test of time and were thrown out. By the 4th century when the councils met and the canon was formalized, it was already generally accepted which books were inspired.
You are correct in saying that Revelation is one of the last to be accepted. But, having said that, it was. And, given this, it must be believed to be just as true and authoritive as any of the gospels. Ultimately, the determination of which books are worthy to be called scripture is determined by no earthly person but by the Holy Spirit who resides in all believers.


43 posted on 08/10/2010 4:36:07 PM PDT by Scoutdad
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To: MassRepublican; Viking83
a little side note to the Catholic bashers. it was the Catholic Councils of the church that decided which books would be in the New Testament and the Book of Revelation was not a shoe-in.

If I understand your position it is that the Holy Spirit
had nothing to do with the assembling of the books
of the New Testament.

Is that correct ?

Are you suggesting that the Yah'shua was wrong when He said :

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father
will send in My name, He will teach you all things,
and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
I pray that the Roman "church" is not grieving the Holy Spirit.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
66 posted on 08/11/2010 5:47:50 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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