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To: Dexter Morgan; The Ignorant Fisherman
Does Christ’s grace extend to Beck and other Mormons?

Of course it does! But you've misjudged the foundational Q if you think that's where it begins in Mormonism. The real question within Mormonism when it comes to grace is to ask the individual Mormon, "do you need to work for God's grace to kick in? Is it something you earn by your worthiness? Is it a merit badge?"

I mean, #1, I won't try to pretend I know how every Mormon applies grace vs. merit to their lives...but we can take a look at Book of Mormon passages and make a few surface conclusions:

Q. According to the Book of Mormon, who initiates grace -- man or God?
A. Man

Q. Where is that found?
A. Helaman 12:24 and 2 Nephi 25:23

And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. (Hel. 12:24)

If grace is "merited" "according to...works" -- then, sorry, "grace" is no longer "free." It's been turned on its head & 100% redefined. (Just try teaching your kids to merit their birthday & Christmas "gifts" "according to their works.")

...for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. (2 Nephi 25:23)

And here, grace only kicks in like some afterburner on a rocket after you've used all your own fuel to get to a certain location. Tell us, what Mormon would actually have the gall to say to God, "Lord, I've done EVERYTHING I could possibly do. Spiritually. Physically. Emotionally. Mentally. Relationally. Etc. I've 'initiated' it, Lord, for your grace" ???

53 posted on 08/05/2010 1:44:10 PM PDT by Colofornian (If we could "CTR" we wouldn't need a Savior. [See 1 Corinthians 1:30])
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To: Colofornian

If God’s grace is for everyone, shouldn’t that include Mormons too, despite what their doctrine is?

IMO, to say that their doctrine (which dictates their actions) affects their access to grace is saying that their is another element, outside of God’s grace alone, which is required for salvation. Either grace is enough for everyone, or it is not.

I’m perfectly okay saying that they are excluded from salvation based on their beliefs, according to my beliefs. Then, I must be okay with them professing the converse.

If there is no claim to exclusion from salvation, why do all of the different Christian sects war so vehemently with each other about who is right?


77 posted on 08/05/2010 3:23:29 PM PDT by Dexter Morgan (Everyone hides who they are.)
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