Posted on 08/02/2010 10:14:51 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
The Only two Destinies …Romans 2 Posted on August 2, 2010 by billrandles
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:(Romans 2:6-10)
Romans is a revelation from God of the righteousness of God. It declares the good news of how God made a way for unrighteous men to be brought into fellowship with Him, without violating His own righteousness.
But before the good news, the bad news must be fully examined. All men are under a sentence of judgment, they are deserving of an eternal conscious existence of suffering under the wrath of God.The danger we are in can not be overstated. here is how Jesus put it,
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.(Matthew 5:29-30)
The bad news is that Judgment shall be according to truth, that is according to a fixed, holy, standard. Perfect righteousness will be demanded at the bar of the Holy God, he could expect no less, for He is Holy, who made us in His Image.
None of us can be acquitted by that standard! As we shall see in chapter 3,“There is none Righteous no, not one!”…
Judgment also will be strictly according to works. To those who have done good…and to those who have done evil… All of our works, our mental as well as our physical works will be scrutinized by the absolute standard of Righteousness, and each will get their due reward.
And as our text tells us today, there are only two destinies…
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Tribulation, means trouble, pressure and affliction, Anguish means suffering of the spirit. The truly frightening story Jesus told about eternal fixed fate of the nameless rich man and the once poverty-stricken Lazarus, gives us insight into what Paul is warning of here.
It is almost inconceivable to imagine being so parched, so uncomfortable, that a drop of water on the tongue would be any consolation. But perhaps worse would be the pangs of regret, remorse, self loathing at missed opportunities, and painful wistful memories of better times.
To those who have done evil, the judgment day will be a final and complete revelation of what has been happening in installments throughout human history, the Holy wrath against all that is evil,false,and sinful. All pain, futility,despair,regret, in short everything that ever makes human life a bitter cup to drink, is either a direct or an indirect revelation of the wrath of God against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men.
Paul once comforted persecuted Christians with these words-
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;( 2 Thess 1)
It would be wrong for a Holy God to overlook sin and evil in His universe, the text tells us that Divine vengeance is a Righteous thing with God. False preachers and Christians are ashamed of the doctrine of Divine wrath, but God isn’t.
But to those who do good-
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:(Romans 2:6-10)
Glory,Honor,and Peace forever. Nothing less than the eternal enjoyment of God. God shall wipe away every tear from our eyes. The destiny of those who are righteous is so unspeakably beautiful, that the only way it is usually described ,even in scripture is negatively…
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.(Rev 21:6)
The righteous continually, patiently, sought Glory,Honor and immortality. They did so in spite of the fact that to do so they had to go against the stream of the evil ages that they lived in. Glory- refers to all that God is and has for us.Honor, refers to “Praise from God and not from men”.
Peace, Shalom,fulness,rest,satisfaction forever. this is the destiny of the Righteous, what they sought, in God, they found. God is truly the “rewarder of those who diligently seek Him!”.
These are the only two options, there is no third way, there is no purgatory. The choice is stark, either eternal bliss, joy, and enjoyment of God forever, or everlasting remorse, regret,”anguish of soul” banishment from all that makes life worth living, forever.
a) he's wrong.
b) he really should learn what other folks believe before he presumes to pontificate on their (alleged) beliefs.
c) Folks who pontificate from a position of ignorance are amusing in their presumption.
Trains leaving soon folks....last call. Choose this day whom you will serve. Not choosing is a default to eternal damnation.
FYI
“Possibly the greatest moment in history”
http://rosettasister.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/possibly-the-greatest-moment-in-history/
He was not suggesting it was a third final destination, but simply pointing out that there is no way for an unbeliever to pay for his/her sins after death. Sinners might put false hope in “purgatory”, living a life of willfull sin and figuring they could settle up there, and eventually make it to heaven.
Your series on Romans has been spot on Pastor Bill, keep it up!
Deuteronomy 30:15-20 (King James Version)
“...
15.See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16,In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17.But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18.I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19.I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20.That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
...”
____________________________________________________
It is true. God changes not. From beginning to end, God is Sovereign, Holy, Righteous, knowing the end from the beginning.
Prayer of Jesus in John 17
“John 17 (King James Version)
John 17
1.These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2.As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3.And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4.I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5.And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6.I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7.Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8.For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9.I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10.And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11.And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12.While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13.And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14.I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15.I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16.They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17.Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18.As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19.And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20.Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21.That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22.And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23.I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24.Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25.O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26.And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
Blessing and Glory be to God!
2) Yes, Mr. Randles does seem to be unfamiliar with it. It would behoove him to at least learn what a thing is (even if he disagrees with it) before pontificating on it.
2) Pastor Randles’ article gave no indication that he misunderstood the false doctrine of purgatory. Having read his articles in the past, I am quite confident is familiar with it. He never stated he thought it was taught as a final destination. You jumped to that conclusion.
Also, I don't think there is anybody out there who has heard of purgatory who believes it is a final destination, as you accuse Pastor Randles of believing.
At any rate, whether “Purgatory” is permanent or temporary should be of no more consequence to a Biblical Christian than whether Zeus is left-handed or right-handed or if the Easter Bunny is white or brown. The details of myths are irrelevant.
Thank you Pastor Bill
As you say.
I am quite certain Purgatory is a true doctrine. Matt 12:31-32, 1Corinthians 3:7-15.
as you accuse Pastor [Mr.] Randles of believing.
I accuse nobody. Familiarize yourself with the meaning of the words "if" and "seem". I forgive your rash judgment of me.
I found Mr. Randles' comment on Purgatory to be ambiguous at best. Further, I found the ambiguity and apparent misunderstanding to detract from an otherwise interesting set of personal musings on the subject of the "Four Last Things" (Death, Judgment, Heaven, and Hell). It would have been a much stronger article if the author had restricted himself to discussing doctrines which he actually believes.
Arrogant-thanks for your comments-I know that purgatory is not represented as a a destiny-that is why I said “there is no third way”-
BTW the only one who literally “ponitificates “ would be the Pontifex Maximus- I am only expositing scripture-
Its a shame that the only thing you got out of it was a percieved slight to your religion-
rosseta - thank you for your comments, I have to reply to your link however- Edgar Cayce is not a prophet of God- he would fit the classic definition of a false prophet-Deut 18 and Deut 13- please look into it
I would have privately posted, but you posted that web link to this thread-
I would happily dialogue more with you if you wish about Cayce
I know that purgatory is not represented as a a destiny
Thank you for clarifying that. It was (to me, at least) unclear and spoiled an otherwise interesting read. Sort of like a sour note at the end of a symphony, it's all the audience notices.
I am only expositing scripture-
That's really all any of us on this forum can do ... offer our musings and personal interpretations of Scripture.
thank you for the post!
Thanks GOP Poet-
Well if that's what you think Purgatory is then what we have here is a failure to communicate.
Catholics believe (and you probably do too if you think about it) in two consequences of sin, eternal punishment and temporal punishment. Eternal punishment is paid for by Christ because no finite creature can pay for offending the infinite God. I'm sure we agree here.
Temporal punishment is why Christians get fat when they overeat... or commit gluttony as it used to be called. That's a bit glib and a huge overgeneralization but I hope it leads you to the point I'm trying to make.
I don't know what sort of Protestant you are and some appear to believe that after whatever act they do that "saves" them they are simply incapable of sinning. Catholics believe that a person can sin after that and that it is necessary to repent, to seek the forgiveness of God. God forgives and the eternal consequence is remitted, but there are still temporal consequences. You have to make something "right", either by reparation in the case of theft for instance or repairing the reputation of a person you may have slandered.
You might ask why that is, after all if Jesus has paid the price and you're headed for Heaven then what does it matter? Well, because it becomes part of who you are and that part of you has to be (in the way we talk about these things) burned out of you before you enter the presence of God. It has to be purged, you must undergo purgation and the word purgatory is the word we use to attempt to understand and describe it.
We live in time, God is eternally and always completely Himself. We are not, we build our lives in time, adding to who we are in a finite progression of events. The sin I committed years ago has unfortunately helped to make me the person I am today. I can't pay the price for it but I have to minimize how much of me that long since repented sin represents.
Some theologians speculate that the very act of approaching God is what burns your earthly works out of you because God is sometimes referred to as a consuming fire, others think because we are creatures created in time and who sin in time that time must be involved.
Practically speaking the idea of time in purgatory comes to us from the early Church practice of public penance, if you sinned mortally you would have to publicly confess and then spend possibly years as a penitent before you would be readmitted to the fellowship of the Church. This was one reason that men like Constantine put off Baptism until they were close to when they thought they might die.
As the Church matured the idea of the days (or years) of public penance were folded into the understanding of purgation, that part of the doctrine of Purgatory is not dogmatic. The belief that somehow God is going to practically sandblast the last little vestiges of selfishness out of you before you enter into Heaven is though.
How were Enoch and Elijah able to be taken bodily to Heaven? Did they go through purgatory?
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