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To: Alan Roebuck; circlecity; Alex Murphy; Quix
First, I want to thank you for the original article. It is a topic that most people shy away from.

I also agree that the Gospel must be preached if the culture war is to be fought...all of the Gospel.

You wrote:

“When the attitude of the general public about, and the laws concerning, homosexuality and abortion changed from opposition to approval, they did not change spontaneously. They changed because professors and other intellectuals began a campaign of teaching that these things are actually good.”

This I agree with...people that oppose God worked together to change the heart and MIND of the people, which then caused the laws to change. I would call this “bottom up” change since the attitude had to change and was not “imposed”. I would also argue that most still do not approve of homosexuality and abortion but actually only tolerate it...but that is another discussion.

Our problem is not that we need a new organization since we have plenty. We need the organization that dropped the ball several decades ago to wake up and do the job it was given 2000 years ago. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU:...”

Too many of the modern churches will preach the Gospel and then fails to teach, especially on what might be contrary to the current culture. Scripture is clear that homosexuality is sin, as is any sex outside of marriage, and abortion, and witchcraft, and drunkenness, etc. and yet I have been in “Bible” churches that the leadership have their children reading “Harry Potter” or the discussion at some meetings turn to what kind of beer they prefer, etc. Why do the churches tolerate sin to continue without challenging it...? I can only point to what the Pastor of the church I have experienced has said...”We don't want to upset the people because then they might not come on Sunday and here my sermon, and then they would not here any of scripture”. I left that church shortly after hearing this statement, how are you going to “teaching them to observe all things...” when we refuse to teach?

As I said earlier, there is an on going effort to change this culture for the worse and those people understand that they need to educate the average person to think a certain way...to change their minds...in order to have cultural change (bottom up). They can not force this change from the top down...some tried this with Prohibition and that did not work well.

As examples:

“Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom.” Humanist Manifesto 1933

“The conditions of work, education, devotion, and play should be humanized. Alienating forces should be modified or eradicated...” Humanist Manifesto II 1973

“Give me your four year olds, and in a generation I will build a socialist state.” Vladimir Lenin

“Education is thus a most powerful ally of Humanism, and every American public school is a school of Humanism. What can the theistic Sunday schools, meeting for an hour once a week, and teaching only a fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of humanistic teaching?” “Humanism A New Religion” by Charles Francis Potter page 128 published 1930

So what does the church do...90% plus of church kids go to public schools...why? Because in most churches it is taught that public schools are a good thing. I have known a multitude of Pastors over the years and more then half of them have wives that are teachers in the public schools...does this influence the decision not to warn about the dangers of public schools? The result of sending our kids out to the schools...remember the quote above...90% plus of church kids will walk away from the church after high school. Coincidence...?

What does Scripture say...Psalms 1:1-2 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

If a man is not to learn from the ungodly then why would we send our kids to do that same thing...?

I would also point out that we are all in this culture war since we are all in the culture...you can not be neutral. This war is not conservative vs liberal but...a spiritual war. Good against evil, and God decides what is good...we can find this out in Scripture.

So let us agree to fight this fight as God has instructed us...1 Timothy 6:11-12 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Ephesians 6:10-12 Finally, my brethren, by strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the whiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I would add that there are organizations already doing the work of trying to educate the church. Some of them are; Summit Ministries, Answers in Genesis, WallBuilders, Worldview Weekends, Mayflower Institute, Worldview Academy, and the Christian Anti-Communism Crusade...to name a few. And I am sure they would not mind additional help.

God bless and be strong in Him

20 posted on 08/01/2010 7:23:37 PM PDT by WorldviewDad (following God instead of culture)
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To: WorldviewDad

INDEED.

MUCH AGREE.


21 posted on 08/01/2010 7:33:01 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: WorldviewDad

INDEED.

MUCH AGREE.


22 posted on 08/01/2010 7:33:05 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: WorldviewDad; All

It occurs to me that culture is “bottom up” in one sense, and “top down” in another. I stand by my statement that ultimately, the culture is what its leaders say it is. This is because the vast majority of people, including a strong majority of the intelligent and highly-educated, form their beliefs on the most basic issues of life not by thinking them through on their own, but by choosing which authorities they respect, and then following those authorities. To put it in the simplest terms, atheists and agnostics choose to follow the scientists and the professors, Christians choose to follow the Bible and the pastors and teachers they respect, and Joe Sixpack follows the popular pundits and the media. In this sense, culture is top down, as I have been maintaining.

But leaders cannot just teach whatever they want. Their followers have a certain worldview, and they will not accept any teaching emanating from those leaders they trust. Once the people in general have been taught and conditioned to go along with liberalism, they will not just follow leaders who suddenly start teaching conservatism. Rick Warren, for example, would lose most of his followers, and therefore most of his power, if he began teaching biblical Christianity: sin, atonement in the blood of Jesus, the need for repentance and true faith, and so on. In this sense, culture is also bottom up, and we can start to undermine the empire of the left by individual persuasion.

The problem with bottom-up reform is that if the leaders do not lose their nerve they can always block reform, if they are sufficiently ruthless. Reforming existing institutions (as opposed to forming independent and parallel institutions) requires inside agents.

Also, the normal functioning of any society, large or small, requires leaders who establish and exert force to maintain the culture. It is naïve to think that persuasion is enough. We also need the institutions of leadership to reinforce proper thought and action.

WorldviewDad, you listed a number of Christian-based organizations equipping Christian to fight the culture war. Good work is being done. But I believe that more is needed. In particular, we need to focus on:
• Opposing the premises of liberalism, not just its concrete projects such as legitimizing abortion and homosexuality. We need to focus on liberal premises, such as that nondiscrimination is the ultimate good, and that God is unknowable
• Opposing liberalism in the arena of public intellectual combat, and not just training Christians to think and act biblically. We need to attack the secularist and leftists in their headquarters (universities and media), showing to one and all that we have a better case.
• Alerting everyone to the fact that liberalism is not just a constant nuisance, it has de facto control of America and all of Western Civilization, and is a mortal threat. We need to show Christians and non Christians that this is not a fight over abstractions, it is a life-and-death matter.


23 posted on 08/02/2010 4:25:17 PM PDT by Alan Roebuck
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