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To: YHAOS; betty boop; kosta50; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; 1010RD; MHGinTN; TXnMA; ...
“In the passage from one faith to another,” many seek to replace the Judeo-Christian tradition in America with a materialistic faith that bears none but a bitter fruit that dumps one out on a desolate landscape. We know that such is not the case with friend kosta. He seeks a more fulfilling answer, but much of what he argues sends many off to that desolate landscape mentioned above. So, he can hardly expect less than emphatic dispute.

I seek neither to replace one for another, nor do I wish to "convert" anyone, nor do I expect praise. I simply ask of those who claim to see and understand the unseen divinity to describe it for me in real terms.

896 posted on 10/13/2010 4:27:23 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50
Not that the following is a pearl to Kosta, but here's an effort to address your query:

There is a way to explain (for those who will listen with their heart) how it is that Jesus would be God yet pray to The Father in Heaven. In the process of this analogizing, the nature of God, to some extent, will be revealed.

Assuming first that God IS, The Creator, The Holy Spirit, and Jesus, it is a function of what work God is doing by which we may focus upon which of the three expressions of God. Here's how:

Starting with something simple, if you were a two spatial dimension being, having only length and width, any third direction of spatial expression would be unknowable to you via your senses. Now, if higher dimensional being wanted to explain what a pencil is or anything with 3D spatial characteristics, the only way you could sense the 3D object is where that 3D object intersects your 2D world.
As a pencil--for instance--passes through your 2D plane, you look at the intersection intensely and perhaps imagine how adding up all the sensed intersections would sum up to a 3D object. But you could only sense where the 3D object intersects your 2D world. Jesus focused Philip's attention upon this same problem in John Chapter fourteen, where Jesus told Philip (paraphrasing), 'If you've seen me you've seen the Father, because all you can see of the Father is what you see in me, for I am in the Father and the Father in me.' Literally, what Jesus was teaching Philip was that human limits in dimensional sensing allow Philip to see only the amount of The Father that is in Jesus.

Now let's apply that to the expressions of God in Three persons, the Trinity, and see how the work that God is doing helps to focus us upon which of His personage is the essence. God's name is I AM. I take that to mean He is timeless, and therefore the Creator of dimension time and dimension space. It is a human trait to which we must analogize, but it helps to imagine that God imagined Whom Jesus would be as an expression of God, then God created space and time and all that there is in the known and unknown universe. That Creation process is by God greater than the creation.
The balance of forces is so delicate for the universe which has brought forth Jesus that God as Holy Spirit sustains it all in this extremely delicate balance.
So we have God The Creator bringing into existence time, space, and all that there is in the universe, holding it all in an extremely delicate balance by His Holy Spirit, so that God as Jesus can eventually come forth within the Created universe. Three expressions of One God, indentified by the work He is doing, the reality He is expressing.

The Bible tells us that God in Jesus made Himself a little lower than the angels (in expression and sensing). As God became flesh and dwelt among us, He had to limit the expression of Himself in order to 'fit' within the limits of our space and time.
HOWEVER, as God He retained the knowledge of what the forces are that His Holy Spirit sustains to keep the dynamic universe operating. Knowing the physical laws in total allows Him to do things like feed 5000 with but a few loaves and fishes.
Literally, everything that is happening is happening because God is sustaining the delicate balance which allows the universe to continue in existence without collapsing or quickly dissipating.

If you knew the complete physical laws of the universe, including the way God is sustaining the whole in delicate balance, you would be 'seeing what God The Father is doing.' Because the universe is in delicate balance yet is dynamic in nature, events can occur and so long as the physical laws of His universe are not violated, choices by living things can be made.

Here is another analogy which might help this explanation. Suppose you were privy to a pair of time binoculars, by which when you look through them you can see an object as it is expressed in spacetime for the next three hours, displayed before your eyes in total as you look through the lenses. Perhaps the lenses run a rapid movie of what is actually coming over the next three hours when you look through the lenses at an object located in the dynamic universe. You could literally say that you are seeing what God is doing, since it is His Holy Spirit that sustains the entire dynamic process of spacetime! Now, how much more power would you have if you comprehended the entire set of laws by which the entire universe is sutained?
If there are other unsensed expressions of dimension time, that as a 'knowing being' you were privy to as you dwelt upon the earth, perhaps you could moved between locations in time, perhaps leaving a stone tomb without rolling away the stone.
In a dynamic universe, if you could step 'sideways' in spatio-temporal expression because of your understanding of the volume of time in which the plane of present exists moving linearly from past to future, the planar location of the insides of the tomb in spacetime move on, leaving you outside of the tombs insides, able to step back into spacetime or remain in the where/when to which you stepped 'sideways'!

Now, perhaps the question bubbling up in your mind is 'so you're saying there is no free agency, we are stuck on a track doing that which God has already determined will be?' And my immediate answer is, no, because God chose, as one of the characteristics of this universe, that He would sustain the processes and the physical aspects while leaving open the choices living things can make which effect the universe He is sustaining ... God's Holy Spirit sustains the spacetime bubble we sense, but He allows us to alter/affect the dynamic expression within that bubble of spacetime since we in our limits cannot change the forces He is sustaining across the entire universe.

We have free choice, to a point that is limited by our temporal and spatial limits as 4D beings, physically. BUT, we are greater than 4D because we are alive, and the expression of life and spirit choice of right and wrong are dimensionally greater than 4D, yet occur within the universe which God Created(Creates) and which His Holy Spirit sustains in the delicate balance we sense and even the portions we cannot sense. To my thinking, that phenomenon of thoughts being real yet outside of 4D and effected/effecting 4D, tells me the Universe God Created/Creates is greater in dimensional expressions than we can sense directly.

And there are realms of reality which we cannot sense, which are referred to in the Bible, old and new testament. Daniel Chapter five will reveal one such realm, which is accessible to Jesus before and after the resurrection but is not accessible to us because we do not see what the Father is doing in sustaining that other realm, because we are merely 4D spatio-temporal beings where our physical senses are concerned.

897 posted on 10/13/2010 6:33:47 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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