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To: Amos the Prophet; Alamo-Girl; spirited irish; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; Diamond; YHAOS
The rejection of absolute truth is the denial of reality. Solving this cultural condition is not complicated but it is difficult.

Dear brother in Christ, I absolutely affirm your first statement. The second, however, seems problematical to me.

The solution to the raging cultural condition of existence in untruth is difficult because it is complicated. It's complicated because of the plethora of different ways people can go wrong, once they're off "the God-standard."

You wrote, "We cannot engage progressives and agnostic intellectuals in rational discourse." Well, all I can say about that is from personal experience. On that basis, the statement is correct. As Eric Voegelin has pointed out, "debate" between persons who do not acknowledge a common ground of Reality are doomed from the outset. Or to put the matter another way, people who do not live in the same reality are unlikely to agree about much. Or again: People who live in First Reality do not understand people who live in a Second Reality; and vice versa. They do not even speak the same language.

Which I think is the basic point of what Heraclitus was saying, that there are two basic kinds of people: those who recognize that "the Logos is One and common" and is the very order of being itself; and those sleepers who reject the Logos, and thus withdraw into their own inner worlds, as if dreaming. [Logos is the ancient Greek word for word, truth, story, design — Koine words are remarkably "compact" compared to English, which is a "relentlessly denotative language."]

Thus it seems to me there are those who are on the "God-standard," and those who are not. Needless to say, the two camps are not exactly "eye-to-eye" on anything. They simply do not stand on the same ground, rationally or morally.

So "debates" between such parties inevitably tend to be "all heat and no light."

So if you can't get anywhere with such people with reason, with good-faith public debate, with rational persuasion, what do you do?

What you're left with is witness, just as you say, dear Amos. Your witness may not do a thing for people who refuse to be persuaded. But it might be of great help to others, those not yet thoroughly indoctrinated into such life- and reason-denying ideologies.

And of course, that witness must be of our Lord, Jesus Christ — Who is the Son of God, the Word of God Alpha and Omega, Who was God, and was with God in the Beginning, by and for Whom all Creation heavenly and earthly was made.... That witness preeminently must take the form of living in His Law, in His Love.

Other than that, I don't have a clue what to do about the fact that, nowadays, we are building a Tower of Babel [Babble] in the Public Square.

Or so it seems to me FWIW.

Thank you so much, dear brother in Christ, for your kind words, and for your excellent essay/post!

599 posted on 08/24/2010 12:17:46 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: betty boop

EXCELLENT POINTS INDEED.


601 posted on 08/24/2010 12:21:46 PM PDT by Quix (C THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: betty boop

If one is in the Lord and attempts to discern the weltenschauung of those who are not in the Lord it is “complicated”. The complication, however, arises from trying to make sense of nonsense. Better to dismiss atheism, pantheism, spiritualism, agnosticism and etc. out of hand and without furthur ado. It is not worth considering because they are born of confusion and false doctrine. It is only difficult if it is necessary to understand nonsense.
I am perfectly happy to talk with an agnostic. My conversation, however, will always be to express my faith, never to try to reason with or create a bridge of understanding.
There is no bridge to the truth. It requires, in Tillich’s words, a leap of faith. One must literally throw oneself into the abyss by giving up the personal quest for truth and acknowledge that God alone can provide Truth.
To put it another way, Faith in God is not reasonable. Jesus taught that the world can not know the truth. Only by abandoning the world and all it has to offer can one enter the Holy of Holies, the Ground of Truth.
In this very exquisite sense, Christians are completely unreasonable and, in the world’s terms, insane. (Ploughing a little deep here.)
All of this matters because we must destroy the authority of progressivism. How else to do this than to refuse to dialog on levels that cannot end progressive tyranny. I will not discuss any issue without laying claim to Christ as the foundation of truth.
If a policy does not contrubute to a deeper understanding of the sovreignty of God it is false and not worth consideration. Walter Williams gave a perfect illustration of this subbing for Rush today. He discussed government redistribution as a violation of free enterprise and the Commandment to not steal. It is in direct violation of Judeo Christian principles.
By granting even an iota of reasonableness to progressives the gates of Hell are thrown wide open. There is nothing right or true about conditions in our government today. Because nothing that is being done is born of a knowledge of Christ - notwithstanding madam Pelosi’s favor for The Word - it must all be torn down and dumped on the ash bin of history.
The difference between this attitude and the dominant attitude of the French Revolution is clear. The French were all about destroying their heritage. We are all about ending the reign of terror of those who are seeking to destroy our heritage.
This is a war between wars. The 2 great revolutions are met on a field in our time. One will prevail.


604 posted on 08/24/2010 5:16:17 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (They are the vultures of Dark Crystal screeeching their hatred and fear into the void ....)
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To: betty boop
So if you can't get anywhere with such people with reason, with good-faith public debate, with rational persuasion, what do you do?

What you're left with is witness, just as you say, dear Amos. Your witness may not do a thing for people who refuse to be persuaded. But it might be of great help to others, those not yet thoroughly indoctrinated into such life- and reason-denying ideologies.

And of course, that witness must be of our Lord, Jesus Christ — Who is the Son of God, the Word of God Alpha and Omega, Who was God, and was with God in the Beginning, by and for Whom all Creation heavenly and earthly was made.... That witness preeminently must take the form of living in His Law, in His Love.

Amen!!!

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

606 posted on 08/24/2010 7:33:40 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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