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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; xzins
That "evidence" does not cut it. You are citing third-party sources

I would be happy to see you post even a third-party source. So far all I've seen were your unsubstantiated claims.

180 posted on 07/27/2010 10:08:49 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; xzins
So far all I've seen were your unsubstantiated claims.

Well we already know from long experience that you completely rule out witness testimony entirely. You actually prefer third-party sources to any such thing.

But in the end, your third-party sources have to rely on something beyond their claims in order for their claims to be true. In the end, it all devolves on witness testimony at some point....

182 posted on 07/27/2010 10:22:55 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: kosta50; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; xzins
“One great Advantage of the Christian Religion is that it brings the great Principle of the Law of Nature and Nations, Love your Neighbour as yourself, and do to others as you would that others should do to you, to the Knowledge, Belief and Veneration of the whole People. Children, Servants, Women and Men are all Professors in the science of public as well as private Morality. No other Institution for Education, no kind of political Discipline, could diffuse this kind of necessary Information, so universally among all Ranks and Descriptions of Citizens. The Duties and Rights of The Man and the Citizen are thus taught, from early Infancy to every Creature. The Sanctions of a future Life are thus added to the Observance of civil and political as well as domestic and private Duties. Prudence, Justice, Temperance and Fortitude, are thus taught to be the means and Conditions of future as well as present Happiness.” (John Adams Diary 46, Sunday, August 14, 1796, Pg 52)

[boop makes]“. . . unsubstantiated claims that John Adams was "a Christian, heart and soul".

Actually, John Adams does tell boop (and us all) of his “heart and soul” devotion to Christianity. He does it in his diaries and letters:

“The Christian Religion is, above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern Times, The Religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity and Humanity, let the Blackguard Paine say what he will. It is Resignation to God -- it is Goodness itself to Man.” (John Adams Diary 46, Tuesday, July 26, 1796, Pg 42)

“Heard Sprout [Sproat], on 3 Tit. 5. Not by Works of Righteousness, which We have done, but according to his Mercy he saved us, through the Washing of Regeneration and the Renewing of the holy Ghost.” (John Adams Diary 23, Sunday, September 17, 1775, pg 5)

Many folks in this forum will recognize the significance of this last diary entry. It is a direct rejection of the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. John Adams, and indeed most American colonials were virulently anti-Catholic and vehemently rejected “Roman” dogma. Two Hundred years of religious and political conflict in Great Britain accounts for the cause. The bitterness of that conflict lingered in America until 1960. Some claim it lingers even to this day. More than a few of us have witnessed bitter exchanges right here in FR, indicating the observation may indeed have some truth.

Atheists take advantage of this Roman/Protestant animosity to declare that many of the Founding Fathers were not Christians, when in fact the expressions they rely on reflects the colonists’ rejection of Roman dogma, rather than Christian belief. On the subject of religious freedom the conflict was particularly bitter, and it extended to equally angry disputes between Protestant sects. Hence, we see equally stinging criticisms against those sects by both Jefferson and Adams (and many another), which Atheists have likewise seized upon to “prove” a rejection of Christianity. They are counting on our ignorance, or our forgetfulness, of history to perpetrate their hoax.

It is said that Adams was Unitarian, and there is some indication this may be at least true to some degree. Apparently Adams embraced Unitarianism eschewing the Holy Trinity of the Roman Church. It does not logically follow that he therefore denied the divinity of Christ, and there is no indication that he did (nor did Abigail). Jefferson, an Episcopalian and a vestryman in the Church for most of his life, also eschewed the Holy Roman Trinity, yet he frequently expressed his devotion to the teachings of Christ.

The perfidy of Atheism knows no bounds in its attempt to deny the Christian belief of the Founding Fathers. For example, in a series of letters Adams and Jefferson discuss the abuses of grief. In one, Adams cites six examples of said abuses. The sixth (without the inclusion of the number) is seized upon by Atheists to leave us with the impression that Adams condemns the Christian cross.

1st. The death of Socrates . . . 2d. The death of Caesar . . . 3d. The death of Washington . . . 4th. The death of Hamilton . . . 5th. The death of Mr. Ames . . . (now quoting from the letter) “6th. I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect which is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill, or might fill, the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history. (John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, September 3, 1816, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, Editor)

Atheists customarily delete the last sentence from the Adams’ quote. Its addition, and the knowledge of the context in which he was writing, leaves us with an entirely different impression of Adams’ beliefs. That’s how that works, and that’s how Atheists work.

“Philosophy looks with an impartial eye on all terrestrial religions. I have examined all, as well as my narrow sphere, my straitened means and my busy life would allow me, and the result is, that the Bible is the best book in the world: It contains more of my little philosophy than all the libraries I have seen; and such parts of it as I cannot reconcile to my little philosophy, I postpone for future investigation.” (John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, Quincy, December 25, 1813, Ibid

For the record, by the way; despite the bitter religious wars of that time, we number among our Founding Fathers at least one Roman Catholic.

195 posted on 07/28/2010 6:27:38 PM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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