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To: stfassisi; betty boop; kosta50; slimemold; YHAOS; xzins; P-Marlowe; spirited irish
Thank you for sharing your views, dear brother in Christ!

When government thinks it can separate itself from the Church and form its own sort of Church ,it’s easy to see degradation of morality,thus the system fails because it separated itself from the Church and never understood what true freedom and liberty is in the first place.

It was man who insisted on additional mortal authorities - both ecclesiastical and political/judicial. God was not pleased.

And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I [am] not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I [am] slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand [of him whom] thou wilt send.

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, [Is] not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.

And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.

And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs. - Exodus 4:10-17

And again,

But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.

And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. - I Samuel 8:6-9

Man never seems to learn the lesson. If we keep on insisting on having our way, He will let us and we will fail - or in the case of the following passage, choke on it.

And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for [it was] well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.

Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days; [But] even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the LORD which [is] among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt? - Numbers 11:18-20

And likewise we will choke on every form of governance - even our own Constitutional Republic which is still the best man can do - until the day comes when Jesus Christ Who alone has the authority, righteousness and power to do so - sets it all aright.

This prophecy is a judgment and a mercy.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. – Revelation 19:11-16

Again I aver that righteousness cannot be achieved by any device of man - including a theocracy with the Church at the head of it.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death. - Proverbs 14:12

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

125 posted on 07/27/2010 7:51:31 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
It was man who insisted on additional mortal authorities - both ecclesiastical and political/judicial. God was not pleased... Than you go on to quote OT Scriptures to try and support your case.

Problem is Dear Sister, we live in the New Covenant fulfilled by Christ and not living in the OT anymore.

Christ gave us the Church and sends His Spirit to the Church as ecclesiastical authority,so it's not of man but of Christ.

"And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. [18] Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. [19] Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning any thing whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven"- Matthew 18: 17-19

Matt. 16:18; 18:18 - Jesus uses the word "ecclesia" only twice in the New Testament Scriptures, which demonstrates that Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church.-From scripturecatholic

And likewise we will choke on every form of governance

If you are governed by the dogmatic teaching of Faith and Morals of the Catholic Church and FOLLOW them you will not choke. You will be a Saint

even our own Constitutional Republic which is still the best man can do

If our constitution was joined with moral teachings of the Church there would be no Abortion ,no pornography etc.. because the FF's would have tied it to dogmatic teachings of the Church on these morals making it impossible to change laws to something immoral. That would be true freedom-which is free from error.

You know ,"the truth shall set you free"

I wish you a Blessed day!

127 posted on 07/27/2010 10:06:05 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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