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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Learn a bit of theology, sir, before spouting off.

Denying that Mary is the Mother of God is the heresy of Nestorianism because it splits Jesus of Nazareth into two parts side-by-side but not sufficiently integrated: it makes Jesus schizoid.

If Jesus of Nazareth was God incarnate, Second Person of the Trinity by virtue of the union of two natures, then Mary, being the mother of this united, integrated person, then she was the Mother of God. Not by any virtue of her own but solely by the grace of God and by her faith in God’s annunciation to her that she would be the mother of the Savior.

Savior = God. To save us, Jesus had to be God. Right? Was Mary the mother of this Savior or was she not? That’s all the “Mother of God” (Theotokos) title means. That Jesus is a single, integrated, acting person, not suffering from multiple-personality disorder. That Mary was the Mother of this united, integrated Person, who was the Second Person of the Trinity united to a human nature.

It has NOTHING to do with Sabellianism. Only Nestorians claim it does.

You, Sir, are a closet-Nestorian.

That Mary is the Mother of God was affirmed at the Council of Ephesus in 431. All orthodox Christians since then have affirmed it. Luther, Wesley, John Stott and all Evangelical leaders who know anything about theology agree that Mary was the Mother of God.


30 posted on 07/25/2010 6:31:16 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.; All
Learn a bit of theology, sir, before spouting off.

It has NOTHING to do with Sabellianism. Only Nestorians claim it does.

You, Sir, are a closet-Nestorian.

So, I take it this means you think that Mary carried the Father and the Spirit in her womb, as well?

I guess I can start referring to Catholics as "Patritokosianists" then.

Nevertheless, your point is ridiculous. Mary did not carry "God" within her, she carried "God the Son" within her, which is why people who want to be correct in their theology observe that Mary is Christotokos, rather than Theotokos - and this is true, regardless of whatever the Nestorians might have said.

To say "Christ" IS to say "God the Son," because the Messiah, even from what we see in the Old Testament, is God the Second Person of the Trinity incarnated in human flesh.

The problem is that you Catholics are sloppy in your use of terminology because by saying "God" without further specification of the Person to which you are referring, you are basically affirming that all three Persons were in Mary's womb - which is obviously incorrect. That is, in fact, Sabellianism because while you affirm that there are three Persons, you confuse them with respect to their functions and their roles, and by saying Mary is "Theotokos," in fact, you de facto reject the separateness of the Persons within the unity of the substance of the Godhead.

The Nestorians were quite right to use the term "Christotokos," they were merely wrong in what they meant by it.

83 posted on 07/25/2010 9:56:41 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. - Dr. Wm R. Thompson)
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To: Houghton M.
Denying that Mary is the Mother of God is the heresy of Nestorianism because it splits Jesus of Nazareth into two parts side-by-side but not sufficiently integrated: it makes Jesus schizoid.

It has NOTHING to do with Sabellianism. Only Nestorians claim it does.

Slow down a bit, Sabellianism is a denial of the Trinity as well as Nestorianism, just in a different way: Sabellianism: In Christianity, Sabellianism, (also known as modalism, modalistic monarchianism, or modal monarchism) is the nontrinitarian belief that the Heavenly Father, Resurrected Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, as perceived by the believer, rather than three distinct persons in God Himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

Just as Arianism denies the Trinity by claiming that Christ was a created being. Arianism: Arius taught that God the Father and the Son did not exist together eternally. He taught that the pre-incarnate Jesus was a divine being created by (and therefore inferior to) God the Father at some point, before which the Son did not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

111 posted on 07/25/2010 11:37:38 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Houghton M.
That Mary is the Mother of God was affirmed at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

But who affirmed the council of Ephesus???

128 posted on 07/25/2010 1:10:42 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Houghton M.
Mary was the Mother of God.

Mary was the Mother of Jesus, the man.

God/Father, God/Son(The Living Word) and God/The Holy Spirit ALWAYS WAS - Mary wasn't. The Son manifested into flesh and called Jesus, the Son of God.

You are using human/natural understanding and applying it to the supernatural.

"Lean not unto your own understanding".

"Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so MY ways are higher than your ways, and MY thoughts are higher than your thoughts."


288 posted on 07/27/2010 8:54:00 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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