In abuse cases, church rules aren’t enough — call police

Boston Globe ^ | July 21, 2010 | Boston Globe

[Brian Kopp DPM]

It would be kind of refreshing to see more than one or two Catholics acknowledge that what the priests did was wrong and the way the Catholic church handled it was wrong.

Everyone else can see that it’s wrong. Why not Catholics?

No, instead they cry *hate* and *bigotry*.

For what? Forcing them to face the music by insisting on accountability?

Its not an either/or situation.

There are some who don't give a damn about the deeper issues here, but are indeed using this simply to further their anti-Catholic bigotry and hatred.

If you can't see that, step back from the issue for a minute and think and pray about it.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

As I said on the other thread, there are many Catholics who have been involved in fighting this filth, at great personal and spiritual costs to themselves and their families, but you will never hear about it or know about it in this life.

[small voice in the wilderness]

I guess I’m missing your point here. What are the “deeper issues” that aren’t being discussed?

[Brian Kopp DPM]

"Satan knows the right address."

Yes, there is filth in the Church. Yes, Church leaders up to the very top, with the notable exception of Cardinal Ratzinger, failed to address it or admit the depth and spread of this filth.

But the homosexual infiltration of the priesthood was carried out of set purpose, and bottom line, it is a demonic attack on the Church, coordinated ultimately by the devil and facilitated by sinful men within the Church that failed in their duties and obligations to the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ.

This is both an attack on the Church AND a gross malfeasance by men within the Church who failed to address a filthy cancer growing within the Church as a result of dissent from Church teaching and disobedience to Church discipline. Obedience and assent to Church disciplines, doctrines and moral theology is the ONLY cure for this filth.

[metmom]

Thanks for verbalizing it so well.

That’s what I’ve thought as well and couldn’t articulate it so well.

Having been raised Catholic and knowing the reverential awe that most Catholics hold their priests in, especially children, I marvel that any would have the strength of will and character to speak up.

For all the hysteria about false accusations, considering the consequences that a Catholic is led to believe that they could potentially face, alone would be likely to cut down on the false accusation tendency.

Dr. Kopp’s estimates that 75% - 80% of the abuse cases are valid is very disturbing. The infiltration is greater than imagined then.

And, FWIW, I don’t have any trouble believing that it is an intentional infiltration by homosexual activists to try to destroy the church from the inside. What gave it traction is that the Church didn’t clamp down on it INSTANTLY when abuse cases came to light.

[small voice in the wilderness]

I saw your “Satan Knows the Right Address” Thread and read it, but obviously could not comment on it, because I am non-Catholic. So let me say it here, it is a very interesting read, especially because it has withstood eleven years since it was first published.

[metmom]

There are some who don't give a damn about the deeper issues here, but are indeed using this simply to further their anti-Catholic bigotry and hatred.

I don't doubt that for one minute.

Having been raised Catholic in a highly Catholic community, I never experienced myself the Protestant bigotry towards Catholics that I've heard exists. I've heard of many of the things that Protestants have called Catholics in the past and am just appalled and honestly have not run across much of that mentality these days, myself.

Most Protestants I know have Catholic family members and do not have the bias towards Catholics. I did work with one southern Baptist who was more biased and outspoken and I was NOT impressed.

[metmom]

Being right and true to your convictions is never popular.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

And, FWIW, I don’t have any trouble believing that it is an intentional infiltration by homosexual activists to try to destroy the church from the inside.

Thank you. That's what Catholics are trying to articulate when they say that we've been victims in all this too.

What gave it traction is that the Church didn’t clamp down on it INSTANTLY when abuse cases came to light.

The Lavender Mafia has a mutual blackmail racket. They use any immorality, be it sex, drugs, financial impropriety, etc., to silence fellow priests. And they promote their own. It only took a small number of closet homosexuals within the hierarchy in the 1960s to completely undermine the Church's prohibition on ordaining homosexuals, bringing their own up through the ranks and into positions of power and influence. The presence of large numbers of compromised bishops is the ultimate cause of this scandal being perpetuated and not being stopped.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

The concept has withstood 2000 years. If the Church were only a man made institution, there’s just no way if could have persevered this long. Look at mainstream protestantism. In another generation or two, it will cease to exist, after only 500 years. The conclusions one can draw are obvious.

[small voice in the wilderness]

Thank you. I would think that Catholic child’s physical and spiritual has been made a shipwreck. Of epic proportions. Because they were taught. And they believed what they were taught.

[cantabile]

The bishops in the United States have adopted an "everyone is a molester" policy.... [W]e weighed the risks and decided the cure was worse than the disease. It's not so much zero tolerance as it's zero sense.

I came to the same conclusion, though perhaps for different reasons. "Zero tolerance policies" have been implemented in public schools and quickly degenerated into stark nonsense: kids suspended for having an aspirin on them, or making a drawing a gun, or giving a girl a peck on the cheek.

I decided that I did not want to volunteer in an atmosphere of suspicion, and would not give up my civil and canon-law rights to the presumption of innocence. It was the right decision: the name of someone in my parish was confused with that of a person who did have a criminal background, and he was suspended for several weeks until the mistake was cleared up. But the interim was hell for him.

Eventually, the diocese decided that choir members are really no different from ordinary congregants, and did not have to go through this stuff if they did not work with children. So I went back to volunteering.

The whole thing's a bit overboard, IMO, rather like the Transportation Security Administration, but no one can justly accuse the Church of inaction on this issue.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

When they made granny, who serves the mashed potatoes at the lunch counter, as well as all the moms and dads who volunteer in a myriad of capacities, submit themselves to these propaganda programs that specifically deny a homosexual component, when we all knew full well the problem was homosexuals in the priesthood, I refused to submit to the diocesan "Protecting God's Children" program, as did many others.

The cynical SOBs that set up this "Protecting God's Children" BS have a custom carved millstone waiting for them, if they do not repent.

[metmom]

Being right and true to your convictions is never popular.

Someone on another thread posted that the best way to raise atheist children is to “live lives of hypocrisy; that is, be atheists, but pretend to be Christians. That will sour kids on God real fast.. .a lot faster than involving them in intellectual pursuit.”

[cantabile]

I wasn't aware the programs specifically "denied the homosexual component", since I did not participate. Obviously, the acts were objectively homosexual in nature, as in the US 81% of the victims were teen boys. Perhaps you might think I'm being overly charitable, but could it perhaps be because they didn't want to mention such distasteful practices?

I understand Bp. Bruskewiecz of Lincoln, NE, chose not to go along with this, though I don't know his reasons. He has a solid reputation for orthodoxy and good sense, so ...

Anyway, the premise of these programs is stupid, because in a reasonably open society one cannot prevent crime, only punish it after the fact. Real crime prevention is only possible in a police state, but I wouldn't want to live in one. Though, at the rate things are going, the US is on its way ...

[marshmallow]

You might want to reconsider who you're making common cause with here.

Any stick will do to beat a dog.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Any stick will do to beat a dog.

Interesting choice of metaphor.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

When you attack those of us who have been deep in the trenches in this battle, you are indeed further victimizing the victims.

I try really hard not to break the FR RF rules. Therefore, you are mistaken. I do not "attack" you or anyone on this forum.

I criticize error, superstitions, pagan rituals, idolatry and departure from God's word.

And your bizarre statement that I am somehow "further victimizing the victims" is satanic.

It's the same "logic" homosexuals use when they insist they suffer "discrimination" just like the Jews in WWII or blacks in 1920's Alabama.

You demean the true crime by excusing it, deflecting it, demoting it, and all around ignoring it.

Good for you if you are working against the homosexual agenda. Start with your own church which has become a breeding ground for a variety of aberrant behavior.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Speaking out against sexually abusive priests and the Roman Catholic church which has been caught covering it up is hatred and bigotry and a slap in the face of Christ?

So, no one can criticize the church for anything, even when it’s clearly in the wrong without it being an insult to Christ Himself?

Are there no limits to what evil the church or priests can do that won’t raise the ire of Catholics when it’s exposed and condemned by non-Catholics? People looking in from the outside can recognize evil when they see it. Calling it evil isn’t hatred or bigotry, it’s speaking the truth, which is more than the Catholic church has been doing in these situations.

I was just told that I, personally, am "victimizing the victims" of pederast priests by pleading their case.

Criminals, all of them.

[Quix]

INCREDIBLE.

Sigh.