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To: restornu
I wonder how these folks will feel when they realize I joined the church because one of my stepfathers told me just what Mormon missionaries tell people. “Don't believe what I say, read it for yourself, and pray about it, and ask to know the truth.”

He was a Baptist minister. I finally felt that conversion experience he told me about more than thirty years after I last saw him. Praying about the Book of Mormon. Oh, he also told me there is no place in the Bible that mentions baptism for the dead. The Elder that answered my questions showed me 1st Corinthians 15:29 in the Bible I got attending Baptist Sunday School as a teen.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

I've heard all kinds of explanations about how Paul didn't really mean baptism for the dead, but something else. All I know is that when I asked God about it, I got told the Book of Mormon is true, and Joseph Smith was a prophet. Good enough for me.

I've also been told that God didn't answer my prayer, Satan did. They must see a different God than I do.

7 posted on 07/18/2010 4:47:25 PM PDT by Old Student
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To: Old Student

Thank you for sharing your testamony I too had my conversion before I ever met the Missionaries and the same with me they continued to encourage me to pray about the various lessons as LDS we are taught to know for ourselves how to recogninzed the Holy Spirit.


10 posted on 07/18/2010 4:57:12 PM PDT by restornu
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To: Old Student
The foundation of LDS:

Second President Brigham Young,

“I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, that this is the Gospel of salvation, and if you do not believe it you will be damned, every one of you” (Journal of Discourses 4:298, March 29, 1857).

On October 9, 1859, Young said,

“From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent” (Journal of Discourses 7:289).

“He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be.” - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

“You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god...” - Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]” - (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.” - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

22 posted on 07/18/2010 5:20:34 PM PDT by svcw (True freedom cannot be granted by any man or government, only by Christ.)
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To: Old Student
All I know is that when I asked God about it, I got told the Book of Mormon is true, and Joseph Smith was a prophet. Good enough for me. I've also been told that God didn't answer my prayer, Satan did. They must see a different God than I do.

Years ago when I was in a period of spiritual searching, a Mormon was trying to get me to try the LDS "Church". At that time, I prayed about the LDS "Church" over the period of a few weeks and the Holy Spirit gave me a loud NO answer. A couple of weeks later I met a group of young evangelical Christians and knew this was where I was supposed to be. So whose god lied to them? Mine or yours? Since we got opposite answers to the same prayer request, who was right?

Since your subjective approach gives conflicting answers, how about an objective approach? On that standard, Mormonism fails. The more I have studied Mormonism as an apologist, the more impressed I am with the lameness of the responses of the LDS.

It seems pretty clear why the LDS "Church" loves this subjective James standard rather than the objective Berean model from Acts 17. Could I use the James passage to pray about whether it is right to murder a business rival? Of course not, since God's Word expressly forbids murder under those circumstances. Likewise, why pray for something that can be easily disproved from Scripture? A modern-day Berean would remember Galatians 1:6-9 which strongly condemns angelic revelations of new "gospels". Sound familiar?

241 posted on 07/19/2010 8:51:43 AM PDT by CommerceComet
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