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To: MarkBsnr
1 John 5:16 - Sin unto Death

The apostle John appears to have in view an unsaved man who professes to be a believer, but who is in actuality in need of salvation. On the one hand, John refers to a man who is sinning but is not doing so to the point of the impossibility of being granted eternal life; he has not yet come to the place where the possibility of divine forgiveness has been revoked. In such cases, as a result of the intercessory prayer of a "brother," God would grant spiritual life. On the other hand, the apostle asserts that if a man does sin to such an extent that repentance and forgiveness is impossible, it would be "unto death"`spiritual death, spiritual death in the sense that his condition is irrevocable (cf. Matt 12:31-32). Thus the sin can be committed by a Christian when "Chris-tian" is used in the broader sense to include those whose Christianity is merely a matter of profession, but it cannot if "Christian" means one who has actually been regenerated.

It is clear that "brother" in Scripture normally refers to a saved individual, but John's usage of the term implies that in some cases there will be a difference between what is professed and what is actually true.

Furthermore, experience has vividly illustrated the power of God to regenerate the most reprobate of sinners, and therefore the believer should be careful not to judge the status of another too quickly. Nevertheless, John asserts that the habitual practice of sin does indicate the spiritual state of a man (cf. Gal 5:21). Consequently, while the believer is to pray for this sinning brother until God reveals otherwise, John reminds him that the efficacy of his prayer may not extend to that person and that the believer's confidence should not be diminished thereby.

This is not an adumbration of the Roman Catholic doctrine regarding mortal sin, for which the consequence is spiritual death (unless it is reversed during this lifetime through confession and penance or after this lifetime while in purgatory through the efforts of relatives still alive). On the contrary, it only maintains that, in keeping with the Johannine theme, persistent sin in the life of anyone who professes to be saved indicates that he is not saved, and that the ultimate end of such is spiritual death. Although acts of sin do not cause one to die spiritually (man is born spiritually dead), the habitual practice of sin may lead to an irreversible state, a condition in which forgiveness will be no longer available. The limitation has only to do with the unbeliever, however, for the believer's full forgiveness was procured by the death of Christ at Calvary.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/j90-11-1.htm

7,388 posted on 08/07/2010 7:53:20 AM PDT by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee
The apostle John appears to have in view an unsaved man who professes to be a believer, but who is in actuality in need of salvation. On the one hand, John refers to a man who is sinning but is not doing so to the point of the impossibility of being granted eternal life; he has not yet come to the place where the possibility of divine forgiveness has been revoked. In such cases, as a result of the intercessory prayer of a "brother," God would grant spiritual life.

There are some problems with this quote. Firstly, it indicates that God is beholden to one of His creation in that He must grant eternal life to one man if another man requests it. It moves the conferrer of salvation from God to man. God here has no choice.

Secondly, John does not say sinning to or not to the point of impossibility of being granted eternal life. John says that there are sins that cannot be forgiven.

1 John 16: 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

There are what the Catholic Church teaches are venial sins and those that are mortal sins. The specific sins carry with them specific weights.

On the other hand, the apostle asserts that if a man does sin to such an extent that repentance and forgiveness is impossible, it would be "unto death"`spiritual death, spiritual death in the sense that his condition is irrevocable (cf. Matt 12:31-32).

That is not what he says. He says that there are specific sins which are deadly and those which are not deadly.

It is clear that "brother" in Scripture normally refers to a saved individual, but John's usage of the term implies that in some cases there will be a difference between what is professed and what is actually true.

Correct. There are true believers - those who profess and those who do not. There are also unbelievers - those who profess belief and and those who do not.

Furthermore, experience has vividly illustrated the power of God to regenerate the most reprobate of sinners, and therefore the believer should be careful not to judge the status of another too quickly. Nevertheless, John asserts that the habitual practice of sin does indicate the spiritual state of a man (cf. Gal 5:21). Consequently, while the believer is to pray for this sinning brother until God reveals otherwise, John reminds him that the efficacy of his prayer may not extend to that person and that the believer's confidence should not be diminished thereby.

This passage says nothing of God revealing anything to us about another. On the face of it, it says that God must save those whom I tell Him to save. God, under this interpretation becomes the slave to His creation. Obviously this is a very incorrect interpretation.

This is not an adumbration of the Roman Catholic doctrine regarding mortal sin, for which the consequence is spiritual death (unless it is reversed during this lifetime through confession and penance or after this lifetime while in purgatory through the efforts of relatives still alive).

Correct. The Catholic doctrine is that one must repent of one's sins AFTER one has committed them, as per Scripture. There is not one general repentence and then transport to Party Central after being saved once.

On the contrary, it only maintains that, in keeping with the Johannine theme, persistent sin in the life of anyone who professes to be saved indicates that he is not saved, and that the ultimate end of such is spiritual death.

An indication to us humans is NOT the equivalent of God's Judgement. It does not say this.

Although acts of sin do not cause one to die spiritually

1 John 5: says the opposite. Certain sins can cause irreversible spiritual death.

the habitual practice of sin may lead to an irreversible state, a condition in which forgiveness will be no longer available.

It does not say that. It says that there are certain sins which are deadly and there are certain sins which are not.

The limitation has only to do with the unbeliever, however, for the believer's full forgiveness was procured by the death of Christ at Calvary.

Negative. The price was paid. Now, each person is to be Judged on his own deeds. Nobody gets a free ride. Jesus paid the price for all men and made it possible for them to be saved. Now, each man will be Judged after his own death.

7,394 posted on 08/07/2010 8:24:52 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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