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To: Mad Dawg

So, if it becomes the literal body and blood of Christ, when does it happen and why doesn’t it look like it?

Not one Catholic has even tried to answer that question yet. They all just keep ignoring it.


6,189 posted on 08/03/2010 7:26:55 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

I and others have answered you.

Yet you ignore it.


6,190 posted on 08/03/2010 7:28:42 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom

I really thought I remembered you saying you were raised Catholic. Did I get that wrong?

If not, and you did go to Mass, do you remember during Mass, hearing something like:

Take this, all of you, and eat it:
this is my body which will be given up for you.
Take this, all of you, and drink from it:
this is the cup of my blood,
the blood of the new and everlasting covenant.
It will be shed for you and for many
so that sins may be forgiven.
Do this in memory of me.

Is this at all familiar to you?


6,207 posted on 08/03/2010 7:43:05 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom; D-fendr; Iscool
What d-fendr said.

The bread becomes the "Body, Blood, Soul, And Divinity" of Christ when the priest completes the words of Institution pertaining to the Body. And the wine, mutatis mutandis, ditto.

As to the appearance, first, who knows what a Spiritual Body or Spiritual Blood look like?

Second, what a thing IS, it's substance, is different from what a think LOOKS like (tastes like, feels like, etc.).

"Star differs from star in glory" but they are all stars. One can be a gas giant. Another can be a dwarf star. They are all stars, even the ones that no longer shine.

As I have said before, a wedding ring can be gold, silver plated with gold, platinum, or who knows what. But when a disaster happens the wife does not say, "Help, my gold annulus fell in the garbage disposal." She says, "My wedding ring ...." the shape, with room for variations, like embedded jewels, is variable and unimportant, except that it needs to be vaguely donut shaped to serve as a ring. The stuff it's made of is unimportant. Gold, platinum, who cares? The "esse", the "what it IS," the "substance" is "wedding ring," and that's why the wife is in a dither, because of what it is, not because of what it looks like.

It is the "what it is" of the bread and wine which are displaced by the "what it is" of the Body, Blood, etc.

So that's why the appearances are unimportant and do not effect the Sacrament.

HOWEVER, sometimes there are Eucharistic miracles, and links to at least one of them were recently posted.

Now if you EVER say again that nobody ever answers the question, rules or no rules, I will call you a liar. I have posted these exact arguments before more than once on this forum.

6,259 posted on 08/03/2010 9:00:58 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: metmom; D-fendr; Mad Dawg
I see that your question has already been answered here, so I won't try to repeat what these other posters have said.

Let me just say that some of the Jews listening to Jesus misunderstood Him and argued among themselves, “How could this man give us his flesh to eat?”.
Several of Jesus’ disciples also found His words “hard to accept” and left Him at that point. Peter and the other apostles stayed, because they believed in the Lord's promises. He fulfilled His promise at the Last Supper, the night before he died. What was begun there on Thursday was completed on Good Friday and Easter Sunday.

The Jews thought Jesus was talking about some form of cannibalism. They were so very wrong. Read up a little more on the Catholic teaching and you'll be amazed at the power and goodness of Almighty God, Who can do such things as give us His Body and Blood through the ages. It's no problem at all for God. The problem is with us and our lack of faith and trust that God does what He says He will do. Always.

6,309 posted on 08/03/2010 11:13:14 PM PDT by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
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To: metmom
So, if it becomes the literal body and blood of Christ, when does it happen and why doesn’t it look like it?

It happens at the moment of consecration, when the priest repeats the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, when the Eucharist was instituted by Christ.

God is good and in His goodness He has given us the way to fulfill Christ's words by giving us His flesh and blood under the guise of bread and wine.

For Passover, the Jews had to sacrifice a perfect lamb and then eat the flesh of the lamb sacrificed. Jesus is the Lamb of God, the last, and most perfect sacrifice. For us to eat His flesh and drink His blood, His body would have to be still present on earth and sacrificed again and again for each generation. But, He is in heaven and has left us His body and blood in the bread and wine, so that we might partake of Him as He commanded.

So, now a Catholic has answered you.

In John 15, Jesus said if we abide in Him, He will abide in us. In John, 6:54, Jesus says, "Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them."

Why did Jesus say this, what was His purpose, and how did he mean for us to fulfill it?

6,471 posted on 08/04/2010 10:30:04 AM PDT by Jvette
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