Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[D-fendr]

There is none righteous.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.

[Mad Dawg]

Well, I don't think that's exactly Calvinism as she is spoke.

I mean "Grace" χαρις just means 'favor', is that not so? And if God favors the elect, and withholds His favor from the damned, the elect don't need any more than favor.

I understand that one of the changes in the new rite will be from "shed for you and for all" to "shed for you and for many". I do not MEAN to be a Jansenist but I do think a great mystery is here. If I were to criticize Calvin, it would be on the basis that he didn't take his shoes off before he went stomping all over this mysterious ground.

WE say: God desires all to be saved. We also say that to the extent that we are in a state of grace, it's, uh, grace. We are, or ought to be, as averse to boasting as any one who reads Paul.

We acknowledge that Hell, as far as we can tell, already has folks who have taken up permanent residence and wait only for their bodies to exacerbate their torment.

At this point we say "TILT!" Does not compute. "Eez a mystery," which I think we are right to say.

Our Calvinist brethren draw the attractive (from a logical POV) conclusion that God must not have intended them to be saved.

I find the contrary in Paul, so I just put my hand on my mouf. It's over my head.

[D-fendr]

Do you believe in double predestination?

[Mad Dawg]

No.

That’s why I put my hand on my mouth.

[D-fendr]

Our Calvinist brethren draw the attractive (from a logical POV) conclusion

Attractive until you realize what it says about a just and loving God.

[Deo volente]

I see you've hit a (Unitarian?) nerve. He brought out the giant insect image. Made me feel a bit queasy, actually.

[D-fendr]

LOL

[Deo volente]

But that “righteous” doesn't mean the same thing as the other “righteous”, dontcha know?

;-)

[D-fendr]

The “thick skin,” as the Mods put it, required on these threads is fortunately thick enough to withstand large pictures of mosquitos.

What would make me queasy is continually criticizing other’s religious beliefs while having to hide my own.

Occasional panic when being asked would be understandable under those conditions.

[presently no screen name]

most folks even hereon seem to have absolutely no clue what’s coming down the Pike.

I agree. And it's not because 'it's hidden' either!

[marbren]

I THINK that a LOT of the glibness on this thread and forum is getting all set to crash and burn . . . most folks even hereon seem to have absolutely no clue what’s coming down the Pike.

AGREED! Did you see the crop circles that look like the Shroud of Turin?

[Quix]

Participation in the life of the Church should lead any Catholic (Charismatic, traditional, or ordinary) into a deeper relationship with the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother and the Pope.

THERE WE HAVE IT, Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Dogs and Cats!

BRAZENLY
DISPLAYED
FOR ALL TO SEE!

The concern expressed
is NOT
EVEN
PRIMARILY
FOR
THE
LOVE
OF
GOD, THE FATHER,
GOD, THE SON,
GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT!

THE CONCERN,
THE EMPHASIS,
THE EXCLAMATION,
THE DISTRESS,
THE EXHORTATION,
THE PUNITIVE PERSPECTIVE

ARE
CLEARLY
ABOUT

the somewhat exclusivist
view of
a ritualized
bureaucratically,
authoritarian
defined
and
sanctioned
FLESH FOCUSED
EXPERIENCE
of
wafers and wine

AND
(drum roll)
a
finished task
earthly mother
AND

a
bureaucratic
magicsterical created
tyrannical
authoritarian
exclusivist
supremelyl lording it over
very human
chief
power monger!

And they seem to
STILL
have the perspective
that
Proddys
and
the watching world
are stupid, blind and clueless enough
to
NOT
think of such
as
SERIOUS
BLASPHEMY
AND
IDOLATRY!

Ain't it grand that the Vatican thinks Proddys are as dumb as rocks!

[Quix]

or . . . as a collective term for The Trinity.

---

MD, this must have been where you got that from me at the referent post.

I think here, I was groping to cover all the possible reasonable bases.

[presently no screen name]

You can't walk in the good works God prepared beforehand if you're not created IN CHRIST.

EXACTLY! One must have salvation FIRST. The reason why salvation is WITHOUT works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

It's is only AFTER salvation - being in Christ - that we can accomplish good works God prepared beforehand.

[Quix]

INDEED.

NOT hidden at all . . .

unless . . . maybe it’s hidden in the same way The Messiah was hidden from the religious rulers 2000 years ago.

[Quix]

INDEED.

In Bandler and Grinder’s FROGS INTO PRINCES etc . . .

the founding Neuro Linguistic Programming gurus . . .

they note that skillfully constructed ambiguity can be extremely powerful.

It seems to me that the Fatima incidents and this cropcircle purportedly mimicing the image on the Turin Shroud . . . have all been ambiguous enough yet suggestive enough for folks to latch onto that interpretation, meaning, image referent which serves the viewer’s AND THE ORIGINATOR’S purposes quite concurrently.

Is the crop circle’s image precise and emphatic? No. If it were, it would not be as mysterious and as captivating. As ambiguous as it is, it is more seductive . . . that way when each individual goes A HA! IT IS like the Turin image, the individual with that A HA! experience is far more seduced and sold on the correlation than someone who sees a more precise image and goes—”Yeah—looks like the Turin image. So what.”

Could be some very sophisticated manipulation going on with those circles just like with Fatima.

[Mad Dawg]

Participation in the life of the Church should lead any Catholic (Charismatic, traditional, or ordinary) into a deeper relationship with the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother and the Pope.

THERE WE HAVE IT, Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Dogs and Cats! BRAZENLY DISPLAYED FOR ALL TO SEE! The concern expressed is NOT EVEN PRIMARILY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THE FATHER, GOD, THE SON, GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT! THE CONCERN, THE EMPHASIS, THE EXCLAMATION, THE DISTRESS, THE EXHORTATION, THE PUNITIVE PERSPECTIVE ARE CLEARLY ABOUT the somewhat exclusivist view of a ritualized bureaucratically, authoritarian defined and sanctioned FLESH FOCUSED EXPERIENCE of wafers and wine AND (drum roll) a finished task earthly mother AND a bureaucratic magicsterical created tyrannical authoritarian exclusivist supremelyl lording it over very human chief power monger! And they seem to STILL have the perspective that Proddys and the watching world are stupid, blind and clueless enough to NOT think of such as SERIOUS BLASPHEMY AND IDOLATRY! Ain't it grand that the Vatican thinks Proddys are as dumb as rocks!

So when somebody says I'm not reading Scripture properly because I don't agree with the various time-tables, or even with the process of looking for time-tables, may I then conclude they care more for timetables than for Jesus and God? Is it reasonable of me to expect that in every post there be some explicit act of homage to God or to conclude from the absence of such an homage that the person doesn't care much for God?

I would think that such folks would say that even though I'm in for a rough ride, or at least a heck of a shock, that they only meant that for a fuller understanding and a deeper obedience, the time-table thing is important.

EWTN, committing the grave and unexpected crime of believing the Faith it tries to propagate, is only saying that something's wrong with a charism that leads one away from the Church, Mary, the Pope.

Being Catholic implies that I agree. While I rejoice with my brothers and sisters all over the shop, I think that anything that puts a greater distance between them and those three things is not the best.

[Quix]

To your questions and illustrations . . .

Yes and no.

LOL.

But I think you know all that.

I think you also know why I could say what I did with a serious straight face.

[presently no screen name]

The Church does NOT approve of Charismatic movements that lead someone

Not The Church but the RCC Church.

to teach against what the Church teaches on the Sacraments,The Blessed Mother etc.... Those who do this are being mislead by satan.

God's Word teaches HIS Church. NO church can teach ANYTHING OTHER than HIS WORD and claim to be His Church. Satan is against God and God's Word.

Christians cannot be mislead when following HIS WORD ALONE - the very thing that Satan hates. Following ANYTHING OTHER than HIS WORD - and one will be deceived. DECEPTION comes from satan.

should lead any Catholic (Charismatic, traditional, or ordinary) into a deeper relationship with the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother and the Pope.

Christians have a relationship with GOD - like Adam and Eve did - like God planned it. God forbid - anyone wanting a deeper relationship with 'man' instead of God Almighty. Satan was kicked out of heaven because of 'his wants'.

It's no mystery 'who' satan is deceiving/misleading.

[Mad Dawg]

It's is only AFTER salvation - being in Christ - that we can accomplish good works God prepared beforehand.

When is salvation?

I think the good works are part of the salvation.