Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Mod’s right. Sorry Quix. Cheap shot and disrespectful. I’ll suffer the insults with grace and let the fallacies dissolve in the face of scrutiny.
That is not what that statement says at all.
Do not take what I said and impute it with a false claim about the meaning of it. You said I said Jesus’ death is insufficient and yet there is nothing in that statement that remotely says that. To say otherwise is to place a meaning on what I said that is not supported by my words.
I also never said that Purgatory was payment for our sins.
Do you believe that as a Christian, you are no longer under obligation to confess your sin, repent and ask forgiveness?
And lastly, how do you or I know that to be in Purgatory is to be separated from the Lord? All it means that one has not entered into heaven. Is Jesus, the Lord confined to heaven?
Of course, our opponents do not see that charity is the perfection of justice and holiness the perfection of charity. In general they don't get the whole idea. They show this by their arguments against it.
Every word of God is pure and accomplishes all that God intends which is to bring His family out of the darkness of sin and estrangement and into the light of the righteousness and glory of Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Fully in agreement with Metmom's 5,123.
1. Since the Lutherans have the True Presence of Christ in their Eucharist (which they DO celebrate) along with ICons, Crucifixes and incense and kneeling in their services and churches, would you go and worship with them? You had indicated that you wouldnt' go anyplace that had such things and didn't consider them (the True Presence etc.) to be Christian, correct?
I doubt you'll find our Reformed and Fundamentalist brethren disqualify True Presence observers to be non-Christian, since the Lord makes that determination. As far as worshipping with those that do, the spiritual unity derived from doctrinal agreement is important. Not participating in the means of grace offered by communion in the Lord's Supper while visiting in a congregation where that is a tenet of faith does not preclude one from realizing the benefits from the exposition of the Word of God.
2. Would you go and worship in a Word-of-Faith group where Kenneth Copeland says Adam was "not a little like God ... not almost like God ...",[26] and has told believers that "You don't have a God in you. You are one." -- would you agree with this and worship there?
I wouldn't, but why would I forsake worship with likeminded people where available? To be ecumenical? Sorry, I'd just listen to the Lutheran Hour that Sunday.
We suffer consequences of sin, but are not punished for them.
The punishment for sin by God is death. The fact that we’re still alive here on earth demonstrates that He is not punishing us for them, even if He allows us to bear the consequences for our sin.
There is no Scriptural justification for the doctrine of purgatory and rationalizing its existence doesn’t prove its existence either.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
God isn’t going to beat His bride black and blue to pay for sins that He has forgiven her of.
But that is why these debates...to overcome the contradictions and see the truth...or at the very least understand one anothers position in order to draw conclusions.
I really don't care what the Protestants teach, except that they don't continue to lie about what the Catholic Church teaches.
Then this is when you also debate and refute what they are saying from your resources and stand in your beliefs. Prove from biblical text or even catholic literature. Put it our there and let the debates begin.
Thus far, as I read your posts, you claim that God wrote the Scriptures down (in Greek I suppose), you have them perfectly translated and interpreted, with the teaching of the Holy Spirit, which you have perfectly learned from and Whom you speak for, perfectly.
Others who see it differently, are mere men.
Yes, I would add a little humility.
Then enlighten me.....
Purgatory is paying for sins by fire, is it not?
Beautifully said. St. Terese would be proud.
Lutherans have 'High' church services with these adornments. Never actually seen one, but I hear they have them at the Seminaries.
If we have one, (doubtful), Dr E you are invited, and we'll take your photo, (face blacked out of course) for proof you were there, so we can dispense with the silliness upthread.
Check my posting history, friend. I frequently cite the Catechism and Scripture.
If you want to respond with what i didn’t say - don’t bother. You keep doing it - so I see that’s your style and I’m so not into DECEPTION.
BLESS YOU FOR YOUR KIND AND DISCERNING COMMENTS.
I try to bridge between what I feel constrained to do as me in the roles God has me . . . and be as hearable etc. as I can be as well. It’s a tricky dance many times.
Many times, my role and all that entails from my perspective and discernment takes utter precedence.
It’s not that I’m unmindful of other sensibilities, it’s that I have a different priority and mandate. And I try to be faithful to HIM on such scores.
He made me as I am.
He trained me as He did.
He conditioned me as He did.
He has insisted that it is for HIS PLEASURE and that His opinion is all that matters. I try to keep that in mind . . . and even manage that imperfectly. By His grace, I’m making progress on that score, however.
I sometimes get a chuckle . . . THANKFULLY, He has not YET asked me to lay on one side naked for a year etc.
He has, however, made a significant part of my message to others—me—personhood—and more or less all that entails in a given expression. I don’t always understand all of that. I’m sometimes more aware of it after the fact. However, it is fascinating and I have to marvel at HIs incredible skill in using even the likes of me.
So, following this reasoning, then can I presume that anything not specifically mentioned in the Bible happened to someone just because it happened to someone else?
Anyone can claim any amount of absurd things using that kind of reasoning.
The doctrine of the Assumption of Mary was dogmatically and infallibly defined by Pope Pius XII on November 1, 1950, in his Apostolic Constitution Munificentissimus Deus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary
Nineteen hundred years after her death! Anyone can claim anything after nineteen hundred years and be hard pressed to prove it did or didn’t happen. There is NO Scriptural basis for making a doctrine out of that. The Bible says NOTHING about Mary’s life after the beginning of Acts and NOTHING about her death.
Making up doctrines and claiming they’re true because the Bible doesn’t specifically say they’re not is the broad way to error and deception.
No, it’s not a “special gift only given to Catholics”.
We’re all going to be Catholic if we’re fortunate enough to arrive in Purgatory!
At that point, heaven is assured, and we are merely undergoing a final purification due to the effects on our souls of the sins we committed.
No denominational differences there, or any kind of religious divisions for that matter.
;-)
PNSN: Where do you get your beliefs?
D-f: On idolatry?
Please, stop with your nonsense. Don’t post to me anymore.
Ok will do...
Thanks for your Christian reply.
I forgive you. Not a big problem.
Respect of my perspective, style etc. is inconsequential and MIGHT not have any eternal significance.
Respect of folks made in God’s image as made in God’s image is a different matter.
You are welcome to deride, mock, satirize any of my perspective’s assertions etc. that God allows/encourages you to do so with. I might learn something.
Truth is better than fallicies, regardless of how uncomfortable the truth may be.
Illustrations of truth are better than illustrations of falsehoods, imho. I value creativity and freedom in such illustrations even when they zing me a good one.
wow..it's THIS bad..isn't it..that's very depressing, now that i've seen it in black and white. This truly is what it's all about.
or in the words of some. this truly is what this isn't all about, isn't it...
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