MORMON CHRISTOLOGY: A CHRIST-TEST FOR CHRISTIAN IDENTITY - OPEN

ONTRUTH.com ^ | 2000 | Cky J. Carrigan

[Quality_Not_Quantity]

Mormons understand Jesus differently than traditional Christians. That doesn't make them not Christian. Just take a look at all the evangelical denominations and tell me the all understand Christ the same way. They don't, and as an inhomogeneous group themselves they therefore do not have authority to pass judgment on the matter.

There is a distinction to be made between the minor differences that exist among various Christian denominations and the major differences that Mormonism holds relative to any of those minor variations.

One can't reject the divinity of Jesus and claim that they're just another Christian denomination. And I have enough personal experience with LDS folks to see how some of the other 'variations' in their belief system shine through in their daily lives and how they interact with the world around them. All of it ain't pretty, no matter how much you admire their well-dressed, polite families.

[ejonesie22]

Nice try, and we know why you must attempt it, but sorry you are incorrect.

Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant traditions all follow the same truine God and understand Christ in the same fundamental manner. There is a reason we share the same creeds and other doctrines. We quibble over procedural issues and such but not over who Christ is, how he came to be, the value of his sacrifice and what he means to mankind.

Anyone who can read the Bible and the doctrines of the LDS with reason and honesty knows that the christ of the Mormons is a fabrication, a hollow and slanderous impostor of the most import man to ever walk this Earth.

Even Mormon leadership has clearly stated that the LDS follow a different christ.

[ansel12]

Q: I read recently that the Catholic Church had rejected Mormon baptism, since their view of Christ and the Trinity is so unusual. But I have to ask: Are Mormons considered separated brothers and sisters? While their views are strange to say the least, they are still separated, and we should reach out to them. If we view them as something other than separated, doesn't that exclude ecumenism? I know that many view them as a cult, but aren't cult members separated as well?

"A: The reason Mormons are not considered separated brethren is not because they aren't "separated" from the Church-they are-but they aren't "brethren" in the sense required.

The phrase separated brethren refers to those who, though separated from full communion with the Catholic Church, have been justified through baptism and are thus brethren in Christ. The Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio) of Vatican II teaches that "all who have been justified by faith in baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."

Because Mormonism is polytheistic and rejects the Trinity, Mormon baptism is not valid, and Mormons are not considered separated brethren. For the same reason, outreach to them, while certainly a good thing, is not ecumenism, though it can include dialogue and social cooperation as well as efforts to evangelize them."

[Godzilla]

That doesn't make them not Christian. Just take a look at all the evangelical denominations and tell me the all understand Christ the same way. They don't, and as an inhomogeneous group themselves they therefore do not have authority to pass judgment on the matter.

I beg to differ with that observation blow. Evangelical denominations accept the Trinitarian doctrine expressed in the article - mormonism does not. Evangelical denominations accept the God-man descriptions from the article - mormonism does not. Evangelical denomination accept that Jesus' sacrifice provides the FULL means of salvation - mormons only recognize a 'universal resurrection' with works required to progress past that. So I don't know where you get your definitions of evangelical denominations from, but it is erroneous.

[ejonesie22]

And yet your “proclamation” of “fact” is devoid of any citation to support your conclusion.

I would act shocked if it would help...

[Blowtorch]

There is a distinction to be made between the minor differences that exist among various Christian denominations and the major differences that Mormonism holds relative to any of those minor variations.

Minor variations, huh? Sounds pretty subjective - you'd think they'd all go to the same church. Your minor differences are major to one, and your major differences minor to another. As a religion, LDS will always consider themselves Christians. As individuals, we must come to understand Christ on our own and must therefore beware of demonizing whole groups. It all is a matter of interpretation, which is not agreed upon and will never be agreed upon.

[ejonesie22]

I always like the very diplomatic way the Catholic Church says things...

[Blowtorch]

Evangelical denomination accept that Jesus' sacrifice provides the FULL means of salvation - mormons only recognize a 'universal resurrection' with works required to progress past that.

Christ said we must be born of the body and of the spirit to enter the kingdom of God. Sounds like work to me.

[ejonesie22]

To those not following the True Christ it would be work...

[greyfoxx39]

So I don't know where you get your definitions of evangelical denominations from, but it is erroneous.

Mormonism in a nutshell...

Let me point out to you that after Mormons achieve the Celestial Kingdom, they cease to be Christians (Christ followers). They use Him as an end to a means, then it’s adios as they achieve your own godhood and go off to rule their own world.

[Quality_Not_Quantity]

Minor variations, huh?

I was referring to differences related to the nature of Christ, not in denominational differences in general. I would say that the predominant belief among Christian groups is fairly consistent, and all of them at odds with Mormonism.

I agree with you that LDS will always self-identify as Christian. as another poster stated: People have the right to worship as they believe...and deceive. It is up to the Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ to be a witness of Him even if it means speaking out against those who spread untruth.

I would agree with that as well - and add that the speaking out is often best done on a person-to-person basis, and done in love.

[ejonesie22]

Well you do hold the company line...

Feel free to declare yourselves whatever you wish, call the water sand if you so desire...

But I would advise swimming lessons before hopping into the desert...

And don't expect us support the deception...

[Blowtorch]

My use of the word is singular of “works,” the same word you used. You misrepresented the meaning behind my use of the word work, knowingly I think.

[ejonesie22]

Sorry, as a follower of the Truth I have no need to practice the word games of the LDS...

[ejonesie22]

Sorry, as a follower of the Truth I have no need to practice the word games of the LDS...

[Godzilla]

Christ said we must be born of the body and of the spirit to enter the kingdom of God. Sounds like work to me.

I take note then that by skipping the other points, you are unable to disagree with my observations on other evangelical denominations and their common view of Jesus. That is good to know.

Who does the work in the 'birth' blow - the baby or the mother? Who did the work - Jesus or you? Where in the bible does doing temple endowments, ceremonies, special underware or other work place a person in heaven with heavenly father?

Paul wrote that we are saved by grace (something unearned or deserved), through faith and not of works. Isaiah wrote that ALL our works of righteousness are as filthy rags (literal translation - bloody menstrual cloths). Sounds like works are out of the picture according to the bible.

[reaganaut]

The thing is, Mormons HAVEN’T always self identified as Christian. For most of their history, they have separated themselves from Christianity. This drive to be considered Christian or ‘just another Christian denomination’ (the cry of ‘we are Christians TOO) is fairly recent (last 20 years or so).

When I was LDS in the 1980’s and early 1990’s, it was just getting started. We still called ourselves Mormon as opposed to ‘christian’. We made fun of Christians (especially ‘gracers’) and while we occasionally cried “we are Christians, too”, especially when told we weren’t Christians at all, among ourselves we patted each other on the back and said “well, we are the only TRUE Christians, the others aren’t really Christians”.

Also, blow, there are no differences between Christian churches on the person, work and Nature of Christ. There is however major differences between the LDS and Christianity.

Since you seem to think there are major differences, please enumerate them.

[ansel12]

Marriage, Divorce, and Mixed Marriages
"Though the Church would prefer that all Orthodox Christians would marry Orthodox Christians, it does not insist on it in practice. Out of its concern for the spiritual welfare of members who wish to marry a non-Orthodox Christian, the Church will conduct a "mixed marriage." For this purpose, a "non-Orthodox Christian" is a member of the Roman Catholic Church, or one of the many Protestant Churches which believe in and baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity. This means that such mixed marriages may be performed in the Orthodox Church. However, the Orthodox Church does not perform marriages between Orthodox Christians and persons belonging to other religions, such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any sectarian and cult group, such as Christian Science, Mormonism, or the followers of Rev. Moon."

[Notary Sojac]

The doctrines of the Trinity and of the nature of Christ were not generally agreed upon until the councils of the fourth and fifth century.

So I think an argument can be made that the "original" church as it existed prior to that time was not bound by the rulings of Nicaea and Chalcedon.

Imagine how different this thread would have been if the Arians had prevailed.

By the way, I am not LDS and tend to the view that old Joe was making it all up.....

[reaganaut]

Christ said we must be born of the body and of the spirit to enter the kingdom of God. Sounds like work to me.

- - - - -
Then you apparently have NO clue either what the Bible teaches or what that verse means or what being ‘born of the spirit’ is.

Wow. Just wow.