Posted on 07/12/2010 10:28:06 PM PDT by Quix
Post your citation. Where does it say that?
Your statement is quite false. The only people who are "rejected for salvation" because they aren't Catholics (and not for some other reason) are those who know in their hearts that the Catholic faith is the true faith, but who nevertheless willfully refuse to embrace it or remain in it. (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium)
Obviously, most believing Protestants do not know in their hearts that Catholicism is the true faith. "Most," but maybe not "all".
The position you're accusing us of holding is sometimes called "Feeneyism". Leonard Feeney, a priest in Boston, was disciplined in 1948 by the Vatican for insisting that his superior (the Archbishop of Boston) was a heretic for believing that Protestants could get to heaven.
By the way, you believe that only Christians go to heaven, right? Do you think that a Catholic who believes in the tenets of Catholicism is a Christian?
How ever did you manage to find such poorly catechized Catholic? Did you throw a stone? Catholics are very angry over the state the faithful were left in following so many of the misguided changes implemented by those who misunderstood Vatican II. We also are angry that people who are very bold to say their opposition to Church teaching “cough, abortion, cough.” self label as Catholic and then become “catholic” media darlings. We are angry at the priests and religious and lay teachers who pass on outright pagan practices to our children and try to put a Christian gloss over them. Lipstick on a pig does not change the pig. We are angry that priests ignored, violated and twisted the Church’s very clear teachings on sexual morality and damaged the bodies and souls of so many innocents. And we are angry at the Bishops who did nothing or at worse aided and abetted this.
But things are changing. And this change will result in a smaller Church. Small but more robust one. We will have fewer priests. But these priests will truly be godly men. The same hold trues for religious orders. We will always have dissenters. Because even though they have a lot of other religions or non religions to go to they don’t care about that. They care about destroying the Church and making it over in their image. They are agents of Satan.
And within 25 years I predict we will have a major Schism. And the heresies that brings about this Schism will be brought about in great part by the following:
1. Denying the uniqueness of Christ.
2. Endorsement of perverse sexual practices/
3. Endorsement of abortion.
4. Elevation of the creature above the creator, especially of the envirnoment.
Let’s say that #4 is the most incredible. Among reasonably educated Catholics, however, there is universal recognition that such is the teaching of the Catholic church, which is not to say that everyone who knows it is the teaching of the Catholic Church subscribes to that belief.
Not controversial at all to those who believe the words of Christ.
But, but ,but, I've been told, over and over, strongly and emphatically, that that is NOT what the Catholic church teaches, that I've made it up, that I'm mistaken, that I'm relating contrived anecdotes.
How can this be?!?!?!
I’ve run into all these issues at my local parish and among Catholic friends. There is nothing from the pulpit on these things. There is a lot of adult ed, like half-day retreats and scripture study series, but a lot of people never do any those things, and I don’t think they really cover that, anyway.
There are other Catholics who are well-informed at the same parish. But they are not angry at the less-informed people, nor at the clergy. They want to be welcoming and not discourage anyone who may have qualms about Church teaching. And sometimes the deacons and the associates say something from the pulpit that effectively “afflicts the comfortable”. You would not hear it from the pastor, though.
There Is No Salvation Outside Of The Catholic Church – Originally stated by St. Cyprian, the Latin axiom “Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus” reminds us that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
Many protestants would confess and affirm "outside the church there is ordinarily no possibility of salvation". But, by church, we don't mean the Roman church which arrogates to itself authority over all God's people.
4. The Mass Is The Same Sacrifice As Calvary – The biggest mistake that many Catholics make is treating the Holy Mass as “just another church service”, similar to those held by other religions. In the Mass, Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross is made present, its memory is celebrated and its saving power is applied.
Modern expositions of RC doctrine I've seen seem to be carefully worded so as not to alarm slumbering Protestants. We've seen this elsewhere.
In the Heidelberg Catechism, a classic protestant catechism from the 16th century, Question 80 deals with the difference between the Lord's supper and the mass. It's a straightforward condemnation. I suspect at the time both sides knew very well what the other taught.
The copy I have, published by a church body most known lately (sadly) for a denominational long march into liberalism, has a note by question 80, that the modern Roman Catholic church does not believe this. Ecumenical wishful thinking?
I'd love to get a straight answer on this. I'll probably have to go back a century or so.
Catholics Don’t Worship Mary And The Saints
They pray to saints, and call it that.* "But that's not worship." Riiiight. What Would Moses Do?
(psssst! Ask them about justification. Ask them how one is made right with God.)
*(In the link Dearest Nancy recounted praying to St. Joseph for the passage of 0bamacare. Freerepublican amusement was derived from the fact that she was praying to the wrong St. Joseph, not the act itself.)
I would say the most controversial is number 4; Even if you accept the concept of transubstantiation, it seems quite a leap from believing Christ has physically appeared on your lips in human form, to believing that the Mass itself mystically transports you to Calvary in a sacrifice equal to that of Calvary.The teachings of the Church (the Pope and the Magisterium) on dogmatic faith and morals cannot be contested and any Catholic who thinks they can has a false (and Protestant) understanding of the Catholic Church.
I’m not sure however that I’ve ever seen a Catholic argue that before, so it could well be that this assertion is contested even with the body of Catholic believers.
Silly prots. Always after me lucky charms.
You’ve even put anti-Catholicism into the title and source lines.
Just the facts, man, just the facts.
Got to argue with you about yoga. Yoga prepares the body to be still and know. Moreover, western people don’t understand karma as it is used in the east. It means more like “duty to God” than “what goes around comes around.”
IT’s a mystery, Charles. It’s a mystic religion, in the end.
*8These are the people who are rejected for salvation according to your catechism...**
And Christ has an answer for them in today’s Gospel. Check it out.
I think he just wanted to start another fire, myself. I notice he hasn’t responded to any of the responses directed to him.
I was told about Yoga by a Franciscan priest a few years ago. Personally, I think yoga has some very helpful moves. I was kind of bummed when he told me that. I’ve never taken a complete yoga class, but if I did, I’d offer it to God before I started and place myself in His Presence. I wish there was something like Christian yoga. A yoga place recently opened near us that is very devoutly Hindu, so the pagan connection is much more apparent there than it would be in the city-run recreational yoga class.
His other point on Eastern prayer was to never “clear your mind of everything”, because if it’s empty, God is not in it, and there’s nothing good in there. A space with nothing good in it seems like a great place for the Evil One to move into. So you may want to clear your mind of what is distracting you, but remember that you want God’s peace to replace what you took out.
Item #7 -no salvation outside the Church- is often misinterpreted.
The concept that the Church is Christ’s Body is correct and legit. Problems arise when some define Christ’s Body to be totally and exclusively the institution headed by the Bishop of Rome, commonly called the Roman Catholic Church. This leads to the erroneous claim that those persons who are members of the Roman Catholic Church are guaranteed salvation but those who are not members of the Roman Catholic Church are condemned. Those who believe as such make the Catechism self-contradictory. As pointed out in the posting, it is possible for non-Catholics to achieve salvation. If the Church is exclusively the Catholic Church, and non-Catholics can achieve salvation, then there is salvation outside the Church.
The Church, that is, Christ’s Body, is the mystical community of all who belong to Christ. Wherever two or three are gathered in His Name, He will be there. Believers are required to be in fellowship with one another; there is no room for a so-called “lone-ranger” Christian.
What in the words of Christ would suggest that celebrating the Mass would transport you to the cross?
I understand the teaching that consecrating the bread and wine makes them the body and blood of Christ. I know the scripture that is used to support that teaching.
But I don’t know what scripture is used to suggest that when Mass starts, the church is mystically transported to Calvary. And as a non-Catholic, I had not previously heard that.
Wait. You forgot “insulting fellow Christians on the Internet.”
A Catholic who believes in these scriptures and acts on them is a Christian...ANYONE who believes on these scriptures and acts on them is a Christian regardless of the institution he/she choses to attend...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
And those who mock Protestants for claiming the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the leading of the Holy Spirit, or that only the magisterium or clerics are led by the Holy Spirit should pay special heed to this scripture...
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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