'Hitler's Pope' saved thousands of Jewish lives

Telegraph ^ | July 6, 2010 | Simon Caldwell

[Petrosius]

Pope Pius XII, the controversial wartime pontiff, may have saved thousands of Jews by secretly securing visas so they could escape Nazi Germany, a historian has claimed.

Pope Pius, who was labelled “Hitler’s Pope” because of his silence during the Holocaust, may have arranged the exodus of about 200,000 Jews from Germany just three weeks after Kristallnacht, when thousands of Jews were rounded up and sent to concentration camps.

[marshmallow]

I’m interested in history. “Pope Pius XII greeted Hitler as the Savior of Germany.” You put that in quotes. Who are you quoting? What is the source of your quote?

May I?

The quote comes from a book entitled "How the Pope of Peace Traded in Blood" by Joseph McCabe.

McCabe was an English writer who spent some time training for the Catholic priesthood with the Franciscans but left and took up the cause of militant atheism.

From the link:

"One of the giants of not only English atheism, but world atheism, Joseph McCabe left a legacy of aggressive atheist and antireligious literature that remains fresh and insightful today. His many works-- he wrote nearly 250 books--could constitute a library of atheism by themselves."

Other books by McCabe:

The Popes and Their Church
Rome's Syllabus Of Condemned Opinions; The Last Blast Of The Catholic Church's Medieval Trumpet

A thoroughly balanced and objective source of information, you can be sure.

[Hacksaw]

I’m not even sure what these loons think the Pope was supposed to do that the US and British military couldn’t do. Launch another Crusade? I think their real complaint is that Hitler didn’t exterminate all the Catholics as well.

[TSgt]

These threads alway bring out some of the most disturbed Freepers that have yet to be banned.

I find FReepers who object to open debate disturbing. Especially those who wish to see other FReepers banned for having a differing opinion.

[IrishCatholic]

That's your source??? What, was Al the guy that works at Goodyear changing tires busy? The Klan website down? Jack Chick Publications not online? Hell, I'd have more respect for you if you got it from the Communist Party Archives.
“How the Pope of Peace Traded in Blood” by Joseph McCabe.

So who was that guy? Well, here is his bio from the same source:
“Joseph McCabe
[ 1867 - 1955 ]

One of the giants of not only English atheism, but world atheism, Joseph McCabe left a legacy of aggressive atheist and antireligious literature that remains fresh and insightful today. His many works— he wrote nearly 250 books—could constitute a library of atheism by themselves.

Born in 1867, Joseph McCabe became a Franciscan monk at the age of nineteen. But disgusted with his fellow monks and the Christian doctrine, he left the priesthood for good on February 19, 1896.

Not long afterwards, he began to write—first against the priesthood itself and then for the position of Atheism. He was one of the founding members of Britain's Rationalist Press Association, and was a prolific writer for Haldeman-Julius Publications. He was also a much-respected speaker, giving, by his own estimate, three or four thousand lectures in the United States, Australia, and great Britain by the age of eighty. Still fighting against the injustices and dishonesties of religion, he died on January 10,1955, at the age of eighty-seven. The epitaph he requested was: “He was a rebel to his last day.”

Yea, real good sourcing there pal! No bias there! Impeccable scholarship, no doubt.
Oh, hey, here's a quote right back at you from Jewish Virtual Library. They aren't fans of Pope Pius XII either. But, they were honest, sourced their quotes, and weren't pulling stuff out of their butts to put online. It is what he spoke to 250,000 pilgrims at Lourdes in 1935:

“They [The Nazis] are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of the social revolution, whether they are guided by a false conception of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult.”

Revisionism has to be fought no matter what the topic. I usually have to do it on the Civil War threads. I don't mind widening the range a bit. It helps keep bigots in line or at least show innocent bystanders they can, and should be opposed.

[TSgt]

I’m not even sure what these loons think the Pope was supposed to do that the US and British military couldn’t do. Launch another Crusade? I think their real complaint is that Hitler didn’t exterminate all the Catholics as well.

First, let me remind you not to make it personal. Second, perhaps the Pope and Catholic church could have resisted like the Protestants?

Got Reichskonkordat?

[IrishCatholic]

Really? Please, show examples. Usually the Know Nothings post vile slander then hit the abuse button and have the moderator save them.
I’ve always found the Catholics patient, slow to anger, and Christian. I’ve found Protestants the same way. Then, there is the scum that attack Catholics at every opportunity. They are our Fred Phelps family kooks of FR. Perhaps you know some???

[TSgt]

That's your source??? What, was Al the guy that works at Goodyear changing tires busy? The Klan website down? Jack Chick Publications not online? Hell, I'd have more respect for you if you got it from the Communist Party Archives.

Let me remind you as well not to make it personal.

Throw out the quote and source if you like, the fact remains that the church signed a treaty with Hitler, Reichskonkordat, to save its neck at the expense of others.

[IrishCatholic]

Why? Are you a founding member of NAMBLA? You reason like you could be.

[marshmallow]

Is that even Pius XII, shaking hands with Hitler in that photo?

I seriously doubt it. In the 1930s and early 1940s, Eugenio Pacelli/Pius XII looked nothing like that. The individual in the photo has gray hair, a chubby face (which Pius XII never had) and is relatively short.

I believe it may be a German bishop.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[TSgt]

Really? Please, show examples. Usually the Know Nothings post vile slander then hit the abuse button and have the moderator save them. I’ve always found the Catholics patient, slow to anger, and Christian. I’ve found Protestants the same way. Then, there is the scum that attack Catholics at every opportunity. They are our Fred Phelps family kooks of FR. Perhaps you know some???

Your response to Alex Murphy does not illustrate patience or slow to anger.

Do not make it personal. Comment on the topic not other FReepers.

[marshmallow]

Have a good look at the photo shown in post #5.

It isn't even Pius XII.

[jjotto]

This has been rehashed many times.

The facts are that the Pope acted correctly.

The reluctance to give him credit is not based on the facts at the time, but rather on the Church’s historical role at fostering a climate of anti-Semitism.

[TSgt]

Why? Are you a founding member of NAMBLA? You reason like you could be.

IrishCatholic, many of us have committed to cordial discourse in the Religion Forum.

[marshmallow]

Do not make it personal. Comment on the topic not other FReepers.

Happy to.

Post #5 is a crock.

It shows a photo of a bishop shaking hands with Hitler and is Photoshopped with an unsourced quote about Pius XII. IOW, the quote is irrelevant to the photo and vice versa.

What's up with that?

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Wouldn’t even pass for a 33% lesser version, like Pius VIII

[ArrogantBustard]

Those who would base their opinions on such works stand condemned by their own words.

[marshmallow]

True.

If it's anyone it's Angelo Roncalli, the future John XXII, who was Papal Nuncio during the German occupation of Greece.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Wow - IC - funny how the same person who said I find FReepers who object to open debate disturbing. Especially those who wish to see other FReepers banned for having a differing opinion. couldn't wait to narc you out to the mod.

[TSgt]

The photo does not state that it is Pius XII. Pius XII used many envoys. A source for the quote has been given.

What about the Reichskonkordat?